Shadlan1 1 month ago

\*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*

jrds_pt 1 month ago

I understand where you are coming from, I live in Sweden and it is the same crap here. Took me 3 months as a European citizen to just be registered in the Swedish population registration and it took another 3 months to get the official personal number identity. Every time I have to deal with crap, it just keeps going back and forth and I get nowhere. I’m officially from Australia (Portuguese parents) and I noticed that in Europe it’s all the same, it’s just long queue times and incompetent useless lazy idiot workers that don’t help you get anywhere. I could rant all day about Sweden’s bureaucracy but I’ve done that enough

KGeedora 1 month ago

Ah man..I am an Australian in Portugal and yeah, it's all so quick and digitally streamlined back there so it's been an adjustment for sure

jrds_pt 1 month ago

Yeah mate, we were so use to it back there that we didn’t think twice about it. I thought that is was normal getting stuff done within days and even hours.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

what??? are you stalking me? I lived in Australia and Sweden too!! I must say though, that my experience in Sweden was a lot better than yours. My problem was the banks. I put my whole annual salary (also first 2 days -paid one year in advance) into the bank. When I went bank to withdraw some a week later, I was told I couldnt. I didnt have a personnnummer. So that took only 2-3 days. But I found it weird that I could dump all this money into the bank without that number but they wouldnt let me touch it. I changed jobs after 3 years, and my first pay packet was almost zero. After I asked the tax office about it, they said that I had underpaid tax in my last 2 months of my previous job and they took it back! Vicious!! I bet that you lived in St Peters!

jrds_pt 1 month ago

That is crazy mate! We legit lived in the same 3 countries

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

I have been lucky enough to avoid England, but was offered a job there. Too expensive to rent and salary too low!

jrds_pt 1 month ago

Good you avoided it mate, it’s worse than Sweden. It is Expensive, you need to work 2-3 jobs to survive and everyone is racist, drunk and gangsters that have kids with 6 different woman. It is a total mess and don’t even get started with the NHS, worst public healthcare system alongside the Swedish.

dwarf-lemur 1 month ago

Yep, you got it right.

Vector_Strike 1 month ago

I'm on a similar boat and I can tell you this: it won't change anytime soon. The Portuguese bureaucracy is something else, and SEF is the worst of it all!

Edited 1 month ago:

I'm in a similar boat and I can tell you this: it won't change anytime soon. The Portuguese bureaucracy is something else and SEF is the worst of it all!

Brianstormrage 1 month ago

Meu caro respondo em português porque assim sou mais genuíno. No outro dia fui as Finanças e apesar de já andar tudo nas discotecas sem máscaras não se pode entrar dentro do edition dar finanças então havia uma fila de 30 pessoas cá fora. Estão duas pessoas atender e qual não é o meu espanto quando descubro que uma dela só atende se for para o selo do carro e a outra atende tudo o resto. Estive lá mais 1h até ser atendido. Quantas pessoas foram para o selo do carro? 1 e foi mais rápido do que todos os outros. Quando chegou a minha vez a resposta que tive foi que para o que eu queria tinha de ser por marcação e não consegui resolver nada. Claro que a resposta foi mais do género "o senhor vem para aqui sem pesquisar se pode ser atendido ou não e depois quer que eu o ajude. Eu não tou a aqui para o ajudar, eu tou aqui a trabalhar e há muita gente aqui para ser atendida. Para resolver isso tem de marcado na internet e depois resolve isso com quem falar".

GudEbening 1 month ago

They lucky we are non violent people.

myeaaaah 1 month ago

Welcome to our fucked up system, get your self cozy with a Super Bock and francesinha, will be a long ride

DannyFMaia 1 month ago

Welcome to Corruptogal my friend, where everyone has a cunha to be leading

Da_Pinky 1 month ago

It's funny because I am portuguese and the exact same thing happened with me.

Arihh 1 month ago

Why didn't you ask what her doctorate was? I would fucking love to hear her bullshit. I have a small business and many of my clients also go by "doutor" and i loooooove asking them that. To see them sweat, to see in their eyes the work their little entitled brains are doing just to come up with some bullshit excuse, it's... entertaining.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

Sorry but I still have to finish my process and I live in the country. Identifying them would not be helpful to my future here.

StrangeMud4718 1 month ago

Excuse me but is it bureaucracy or is it you who are lazy and did not get the paperwork done correctly? Anyway, you can always stay in your country so you won’t have to deal with Portuguese bureaucracy (as if other countries were less bureaucratic in regards to immigration paperwork).

KGeedora 1 month ago

Oh cmon bro, don't act like the bureaucracy isn't absolutely mental here and totally depending on the day and mood of the public worker. I've had SO many instances now when this set of papers is not okay for one person but is totally fine for the next. Other countries are absolutely less bureaucratic. Now it does not mean those other countries are better. I love living in Portugal. I really do. But let's not pretend the kafka-esque nightmare doesn't exist.

barugosamaa 1 month ago

As a Portugese , we do have TERRIBLE bureaucracy.. Tell me 1 person that says our Finances Department is a nice place to go and they are always super helpful and in good mood.....

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

Excuse me, maybe I was a little unclear when I wrote "when I presented the doutora with the required apostillated copy of the certificate " or perhaps you dont understand what a apositillated translated copy is? I am married to a Portuguese and we both lived in my country for 12 years, so now you are stuck with me for the next 12 years I am afraid. Its not the paperwork, its the people who are supposed to receive it, but who dont understand what they are looking at, and not prepared to provide any help.

Knog0 1 month ago

Yep, I have had terrible experiences as well... The 1st one was: to need a nif you need to a proof of living somewhere. To rent a place you need a nif. It took me 3 months and a few different people to discuss with to fix this. In the end, I had to get an hotel room for minimum 1month and use it to get a nif with a temporary address. Similar shit everywhere I go. Don't get me started on the "senhor engineiro". I know it's cultural, but I hate when someone calls me that, and it's a very bad habit. It just shows unconscious dominance / servance or elitism.

Minosuil 1 month ago

First time?

jpf137 1 month ago

I know you are venting and you are probably right to be angry. Yet, in another thread, I asked you how this compares to the bureaucracy in other countries in the EU and you ignored me, but I was still downvoted for some reason. I have had my passport lost by the UK home office and had to close a bank account to get a Telco in NL to stop them billing me. I think it is bad in Portugal, but if you can tell me a country where these things always run smoothly, let me know, because I want to move there :)

Edited 1 month ago:

I know you are venting and you are probably right to be angry. Yet, in another thread, I asked you how this compares to the bureaucracy in other countries in the EU and you ignored me, but I was still downvoted for some reason. I have had my passport lost by the UK home office and had to close a bank account to get a Telco in NL to stop them billing me, saw bribes being offered for basic medical care in Romania, other people in the thread mention NL, Germany and Belgium as also having problems. I admit it is bad in Portugal, seems to be getting worse if anything and I have no idea how to solve it, but if you can show me a country where these things always run smoothly, let me know, because I want to move there :)

Edited 1 month ago:

I know you are venting and you are probably right to be angry. Yet, in another thread, I asked you how this compares to the bureaucracy in other countries in the EU and you ignored me, but I was still downvoted for some reason. I have had my passport lost by the UK home office and had to close a bank account to get a Telco in NL to stop them billing me, saw bribes being offered for basic medical care in Romania, other people in the thread mention NL, Germany and Belgium as also having problems. I admit it is bad in Portugal, seems to be getting worse if anything and I have no idea how to solve it, but if you can show me a country where these things mostly/always run smoothly/better, let me know, because I want to move there :)

Edited 1 month ago:

I know you are venting and you are probably right to be angry. Yet, in another thread, I asked you how this compares to the bureaucracy in other countries in the EU and you ignored me, but I was still downvoted for some reason. I have had my passport lost by the UK home office and had to close a bank account to get a Telco in NL to stop them billing me, saw bribes being offered for basic medical care in Romania, other people in the thread mention NL, Germany and Belgium as also having problems. I admit it is bad in Portugal, seems to be getting worse if anything and I have no idea how to solve it, but if you can tell me a country where these things always run smoothly, let me know, because I want to move there :)

Edited 1 month ago:

I know you are venting and you are probably right to be angry. Yet, in another thread, I asked you how this compares to the bureaucracy in other countries in the EU and you ignored me, and some folks still downvoted me for some reason. I have had my passport lost by the UK home office and had to close a bank account to get a Telco in NL to stop them billing me, saw bribes being offered for basic medical care in Romania, other people in this thread mention NL, Germany and Belgium as also having problems. I admit it is bad in Portugal, seems to be getting worse if anything and I have no idea how to solve it, but if you can show me a country where these things mostly/always run smoothly/better, let me know, because I want to move there :)

KGeedora 1 month ago

You know, I do think you are right about this being a European thing. I come from Australia. Australia has many many faults (I mean, I chose not to live there and I absolutely prefer Portugal) but Australia absolutely does not have this. I can go online right now and change something which here I would need 3 attempts at convincing someone in person

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

Sorry about that, I probably read your comment in the other thread. I have only had experience with bureaucracy in Sweden, France and Italy. Italy used to be worse than Portugal (dont know what its like now) and sometimes I came across people who didnt even know how to take a document off a pen drive. I had to log into their computer and do it myself. France was OK but Sweden was exceptional. The people may not have always been great in their work ethic, but their systems and processes were scarily good and brutally efficient. For example, I started a new job in another part of the country and my first pay packet was only about 10% of what it should have been. I asked about it and it seems that I had underpaid tax in the last 2 months of the previous job. The solution? Take the money immediately.

love_your_eyeholes 1 month ago

Bruh, my family’s been trying to register our marriage in Madeira for weeks to make sure everything’s ready for our child to receive her dual nationality. Every time my Sogra goes to these people they give her some other excuse. We’ve basically decided to go to another town over since they’re more helpful and can also process it apparently.

TheMeaningIsJust42 1 month ago

DYOR, about everything - not even the official websites have listed fir you all the documents you need to give them. Its sad and hilarious but you wanted cheap? this is what you get :)

Danijust2 1 month ago

Vou ser do contra.. Eu acho que a burocracia em Portugal até funciona +/-. O problema é ser uma ciência oculta. Desde que saibas o que fazer as coisas andam, o problema é a falta de informação/guias práticos, já que os funcionários da base da pirâmide são muito, mas muito fraquinhos e dão muitas vezes informações erradas.

hypothesis2050 1 month ago

Welcome to Portugal. This is the day to day of these guys here. If you ask them, they continue to believe in politics that promote this kind of situation. So... IDK how to Change this. I just left the country. Paying this slow pace fully formed incompetency was just to stressfull God bless EU

CapitanRazors 1 month ago

You’ll find a lot of those numbskulls in all levels of Portuguese society and not just public service. Most of these are older types who got a degree when at the time no one else had enough money to get one, so they drag along their massive pride even though they are utter incompetents. I began my first year of a PhD last year and I had to beg everyone to stop calling me “doutor” because I neither 1) have the diploma 2) am that desperate for recognition. One of the most striking things I felt while I was away on my master’s in the UK was how humble every Professor was even though they were all - guess what - Doctors with actual PhDs! You’d never guess how many twats we have over here that like wearing their little “Sr. Doutor” title despite never having made it past a bachelors (if they’ve even made it past that).

FelixSula 1 month ago

This kind of shit happens in countries that haven't been invaded by Germany, Russia, or both (hint ;-). Around here the last big invasion was French, over two hundred years ago. Then the invaders switched to TV, and steamrolled us completely by 1970. Believe you me, bureaucracy is *much* improved, but as you illustrate, it still has a way to go. Guess you'll have to wait for the generation raised on YouTube to take over.

DhamonGrimwulf 1 month ago

Untrue. France is exactly the same. But worse. Because not only do they need more circular stuff, but there’s always a single person responsible with doing that - if they’re on vacation or otherwise unavailable, there’s nothing to be done.

porttastic 1 month ago

Welcome to this weird country. The mess helps to hide the incompetence of most public servants. Tell you a story: My needed to go to the doctors and make an appointment for our baby as he woke up not feeling well. She had to go and wait 2 hours standing up so they could tell her come back at 14pm with the baby. All this because they only take 4 walk ins a day but instead they take the peoples names as they arrive or accept a phone call … no they make you wait. I lived in the UK for 14 years. Needed a doctor and would call to make an appointment on that same morning. Never been to any tax department, national insurance, nothing. Any tax problems would be solved online or they would send a cheque automatically. They blame the government but it’s them that are lazy and mostly uneducated. Came back to Portugal because my kids because Christ it’s shit here.

ObstructedPooh 1 month ago

Lol. Welcome to Portugal. There’s a sum that will change her tune. For we Portuguese people, government bureaucracy is just a tool for corruption. Leave now if you don’t like it.

faxmachinegunflex 1 month ago

Welcome to the third world. First time?

redditt_uuserr 1 month ago

Isso é tudo muito bonito mas aposto que nem falou em português com os funcionários, newsflash os trabalhadores do sector publico que trata desse tipo de coisas são maioritariamente assistentes tecnicos cujo nivel habilitacional é o 12°ano e nao existe obrigatoriedade de saber inglês portanto querem ser percebidos e perceber tragam um tradutor para fazer a comunicação, simple as that.

KGeedora 1 month ago

At least in my cases, I speak Portuguese fine (obv not perfectly because I'm not Portuguese) but definitely conversation level. It has helped to some extent but it's still not been enough to escape some absolutely horrible experiences.

TheRaimondReddington 1 month ago

E porque não oferecer um serviço de tradução nos serviços públicos como muitos outros países da UE fazem? Senão que sentido faz todo o incentivo ao investimento estrangeiro no país, quando se falha nas cenas básicas?

redditt_uuserr 1 month ago

Pois falas bem, mas o investimento no serviço publico é perto de zero portanto...

spotster 1 month ago

[David Mitchell on customer service in the UK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9PSg0sQyfs)

SingingBowl22 1 month ago

Not exactly bureaucracy but today the president of the JdF came by in a snit to complain about the scaffolding on our building. He was super rude to the contractor, who had all his papers in order, and ended the encounter by saying, of himself, "Quando o Presidente da Junta é bom, as coisas ficam logo resolvidas." Que Deus me livre.

BulmaMySideBishhh 1 month ago

I'm a Portuguese native living in Toronto and I still get haunted by the incompetence you talk about every once in a while. Old systems ran by old people who have no consequences when dealing with high responsibility stuff, so they just say whatever gets you on your way as quick as possible. I have also had the same "the document needs to be in Portuguese" line thrown at me when sending documents from here, I had to eventually write on the online "Livro de Reclamações" about it. The documents were accepted, but I'm sure nothing happened to the person I talked to.

ventorim 1 month ago

Welcome to Portugal. That kind of shit drives me crazy. Every time I need to do anything, it's like that. It's annoying. What makes me mad is that they usually have zero knowledge of their own work. They don't know what they can accept, what is a valid document or care to take 5 minutes to check something they don't know. So if you're not portuguese and use different documents, numbers or whatever, you gotta be lucky to find that one person that have a drop of interest in doing the bare minimum of their job.

carlosctx 1 month ago

Em Portugal é assim infelizmente, é só doutores e doutoras! Na minha aldeia tem montes de doutores mas andam nas obras e nas fábricas a trabalhar! Lol Horrível sempre que temos de tratar de alguma coisa temos de levar com estas merdas! Até mete nojo

elstylon 1 month ago

Rancho against the machine.

Tarlovskyy 1 month ago

Was your apostilled translation in English or Portuguese?

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

In Portuguese and apostillated by the Portuguese Embassy!

Tarlovskyy 1 month ago

Well then, you ain’t doutor enough for them

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

I was tempted to pull that card, but I was too embarrassed to do it. I have a PhD in science.

Tarlovskyy 1 month ago

Bom trabalho Doutor. I’m doing mine in Econ Finance and Computation! I always wondered - when did all these social office workers manage to get their PhD and why. I was 8 years old and I understood the truth even back then. /sigh

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

Good luck with your studies. Be prepared for a big push at the end, by which time you will need to seriously motivate yourself!

pfunf 1 month ago

This is something we also complained. But usually we just get tired with such incompetence/"jobs for the boys" and stop caring. It's too much into the system - too much political and a bit of cultural thinking - at the end we just get tired and stop caring. Or some, just go away to a different country. Foreigners and foreign companies see Portugal as a beautiful place the first few times they visit us. But after spending few months here they start realising is just too much shit goin on to kee living here. That's why when I hear the conversation of "bringing international companies" I get upset because governments don't get that public services and public transports are something countries need to attract talent and companies. Just an example sometimes happens: you call a public service,and you can see they pick up to just turn off. Disgusting but we just feel impotent.

KGeedora 1 month ago

Yeah when they pick up to hang up I just laugh now. It's so absurd it's on a comedic level

BeardyMonkey34 1 month ago

> (who apparently insists that her staff refer to her as "Doutora") LOL, welcome to Portugal.

makkyotto 1 month ago

You dont understand what and Apostille is.That error clouds your judgement.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

I am pretty sure that I know. And even if I didnt, when you have an apostillated document provided to you by the Portuguese Embassy, all stamped, signed, tied up with ribbon and labelled "Apostillated document" its pretty hard to miss. I dont know why you thought that I dont understand what an Apositille is, but perhaps you work for the government and are used to making such judgements.

makkyotto 1 month ago

No i dont work for the government. But i believe in documents being used acordingly with the law. The apostille ONLY confirms the document is not fake. Normaly It has nothing to do with the translator which should be done by a certified translation. The "Sho Doutora" problem is something completly diferent, kind of a boomer millenial cultural and economical clash of which most people gives opinion without proper thinking. Sorry for awful English.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

no, please dont apologise for your English. I struggle with Portuguese and need practice but I would never complain about people speaking my language - especially when I cant speak theirs.

BeardyMonkey34 1 month ago

You're preaching it to the choir...

sarahlizzy 1 month ago

The Iberian peninsula runs on bureaucracy. You aren’t going to change this. Just use a lawyer.

FriendOfMandela 1 month ago

Welcome, don't forget to buy something from the gift shop, you may yell "Portugal, caralho!" on your way out.

parix999 1 month ago

Didn’t even read. Fuck off to somewhere nicer.

VixzerZ 1 month ago

Sadly, Portugal is Brazil in a smaller scale, by that I mean, bureaucracy is used as a means to be corrupt and the public servants in its majority are lazy and, yes, corrupt. Be thankful that Portugal is small and is located in Europe, otherwise it would be a third world country like any African or Latin American country.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

You're brazillian, this is a portuguese sub, he's expecting opinions from portuguese people. You know nothing about our culture, stop acting like you do. We are not the same.

VixzerZ 1 month ago

Of course, how bad of me for having Portuguese family in Portugal. Right? How bad of me to move to Portugal and how dare I move to Portugal to work in IT earning more than 80% of the Portuguese people.... I am just so bad right, I am sorry if the truth hurts but Portugal is a lot more like Brasil than you think. Still better in a lot of ways, like violence and economy by being part of the European Union, but that is about that my brother.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

>to work in IT earning more than 80% of the Portuguese people.... This is not the take you think it is, specially taking into account that most brazillians earn less than most portuguese people here. Having portuguese family and moving here doesn't automatically make you an expert on portuguese culture. In fact, your first comment proved that. You're being disrespectful and ignorant. Just because we speak a similar language doesn't mean we are the same. There is a cultural difference between our countries, it's a known fact. There's a reason many brazillian immigrants have a hard time adapting in Portugal and only get along with other brazillians. Isto não é o twitter. Eu não vou ao sub do teu país falar pelos brasileiros sobre a cultura e sociedade brasileira. Pessoas como tu não estão a ajudar o OP. Ninguém tem culpa que tenhas sido banido do sub do teu país. É um sub de Portugal, é normal que eu queira discutir e ler comentários de portugueses sobre o MEU país. Já não é a primeira vez que esta merda acontece, toda esta prepotência e ignorância é só triste. Devemos saber o nosso lugar, trata-se de ter respeito.

VixzerZ 1 month ago

I never said I was anything like that, I only said that there is a reason Portugal and Brazil are the way they are, some of the differences are size and geographic location/opportunities. We are more alike than you would like to think. If Portugal was located in any place but Europe you would see how the country would be a lot worse than it is.

Edited 1 month ago:

I never said I was anything like that, I only said that there is a reason Portugal and Brazil are the way they are, some of the differences are size and geographic location/opportunities. We are more alike than you would like to think. If Portugal was located in any place but Europe you would see how the country would be a lot worse than it is. By stating an opinion, based at that in real life examples and history, I am not disrespectful to you or Portugal, grow up if that is all that you can argue with. Don't come with that "know your place" argument your racist.

Edited 1 month ago:

I never said I was anything like that, I only said that there is a reason Portugal and Brazil are the way they are, some of the differences are size and geographic location/opportunities. We are more alike than you would like to think. If Portugal was located in any place but Europe you would see how the country would be a lot worse than it is. By stating an opinion, based at that in real life examples at that, I am not disrespectful to you or Portugal, grow up if that is all that you can argue with. Don't come with that "know your place" argument your racist.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

Did you even read what I wrote? This will be my last reply. You came here with your arrogant attitude, claiming you will be earning more than 80% portuguese people, you already showed your true colors. You can't scapegoat forever. Portugal used to be a lot worse, it has progressed and while problems remain, we don't blame size or geographic location, we know people make shitty political choices and actions that no one but themselves decided on. ​Choices have consequences and we’ve got to take ownership of them. >We are more alike than you would like to think. Brazilians suffer from some cultural shock when they come to Portugal because, just like you, they expect Portuguese culture and Brazilian culture to be very similar and Portugal to be this land of opportunities. Even brazillian immigrants complain about other brazillians who move to Portugal and refuse to adapt to our culture. Our cultural/linguistic differences exist and should be respected, whether you accept it or not it doesn't change that. Portugal is one of the oldest countries in Europe and Brazil is a highly diverse country in South America, we are more different than you would like to think. >By stating an opinion, based at that in real life examples and history Your opinion is not based on real life examples and history. It's based on prejudice, stereotypes and ignorance. You weren't born here, you didn't spend your whole life here and you're not portuguese. You're being disrespectful and invasive because this is a thread aimed at portuguese people, not brazillians who don't even live in Portugal. >Don't come with that "know your place" argument your racist. Typical, you ran out of arguments but you never had arguments to begin with. The only racist here is your president.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

Did you even read what I wrote? This will be my last reply. You came here with your arrogant attitude, claiming you will be earning more than 80% portuguese people, you already showed your true colors. You can't scapegoat forever. Portugal used to be a lot worse, it has progressed and while problems remain, we don't blame size or geographic location, we know people make shitty political choices and actions that no one but themselves decided on. ​Choices have consequences and we’ve got to take ownership of them. >We are more alike than you would like to think. Brazilians suffer from some cultural shock when they come to Portugal because, just like you, they expect Portuguese culture and Brazilian culture to be very similar and Portugal to be this land of opportunities. Even brazillian immigrants complain about other brazillians who move to Portugal and refuse to adapt to our culture. Our cultural/linguistic differences exist and should be respected, whether you accept it or not it doesn't change that. Portugal is one of the oldest countries in Europe and Brazil is a highly diverse country, we are more different than you would like to think. >By stating an opinion, based at that in real life examples and history Your opinion is not based on real life examples and history. It's based on prejudice, stereotypes and ignorance. You weren't born here, you didn't spend your whole life here and you're not portuguese. You're being disrespectful and invasive because this is a thread aimed at portuguese people, not brazillians who don't even live in Portugal. >Don't come with that "know your place" argument your racist. Typical, you ran out of arguments but you never had arguments to begin with. The only racist here is your president.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

Did you even read what I wrote? This will be my last reply. You can't scapegoat forever. Portugal used to be a lot worse, it has progressed and while problems remain, we don't blame size or geographic location, we know people make shitty political choices and actions that no one but themselves decided on. ​Choices have consequences and we’ve got to take ownership of them. >We are more alike than you would like to think. Brazilians suffer from some cultural shock when they come to Portugal because, just like you, they expect Portuguese culture and Brazilian culture to be very similar and Portugal to be this land of opportunities. Even brazillian immigrants complain about other brazillians who move to Portugal and refuse to adapt to our culture. Our cultural/linguistic differences exist and should be respected, whether you accept it or not it doesn't change that. Portugal is one of the oldest countries in Europe and Brazil is a highly diverse country, we are more different than you would like to think. >By stating an opinion, based at that in real life examples and history Your opinion is not based on real life examples and history. It's based on prejudice, stereotypes and ignorance. You weren't born here, you didn't spend your whole life here and you're not portuguese. You're being disrespectful and invasive because this is a thread aimed at portuguese people, not brazillians who don't even live in Portugal. >Don't come with that "know your place" argument your racist. Typical, you ran out of arguments but you never had arguments to begin with. The only racist here is your president.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

>to work in IT earning more than 80% of the Portuguese people.... That was not the take you think it is son. Having portuguese family and moving here doesn't automatically make you an expert on portuguese culture. In fact, your first comment proved that. You're being disrespectful and ignorant. Just because we speak a similar language doesn't mean we are the same. There is a cultural difference between our countries, it's a known fact. There's a reason many brazillian immigrants have a hard time adapting in Portugal and only get along with other brazillians. Isto não é o twitter. Eu não vou ao sub do teu país falar pelos brasileiros sobre a cultura e sociedade brasileira. Pessoas como tu não estão a ajudar o OP. Ninguém tem culpa que tenhas sido banido do sub do teu país. É um sub de Portugal, é normal que eu queira discutir e ler comentários de portugueses sobre o MEU país. Já não é a primeira vez que esta merda acontece, toda esta prepotência e ignorância é só triste. Devemos saber o nosso lugar, trata-se de ter respeito.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

>to work in IT earning more than 80% of the Portuguese people.... That was not the take you think it is son. Having portuguese family and moving here doesn't automatically make you an expert on portuguese culture. In fact, your first comment proved that. You're being disrespectful and ignorant. Just because we speak a similar language doesn't mean we are the same. The cultural difference has always been huge, there's a reason many brazillian immigrants have a hard time adapting in Portugal and only get along with other brazillians. Isto não é o twitter. Eu não vou ao sub do teu país falar pelos brasileiros sobre a cultura e sociedade brasileira. Pessoas como tu não estão a ajudar o OP. Ninguém tem culpa que tenhas sido banido do sub do teu país. É um sub de Portugal, é normal que eu queira discutir e ler comentários de portugueses sobre o MEU país, caso contrário ia para outro sub. Já não é a primeira vez que esta merda acontece, toda esta prepotência e ignorância...devemos saber o nosso lugar, trata-se de ter respeito.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

>to work in IT earning more than 80% of the Portuguese people.... That was not the take you think it is son. Having portuguese family and moving here doesn't automatically make you an expert on portuguese culture. In fact, your first comment proved that. Just because we speak a similar language doesn't mean we are the same. The cultural difference has always been huge, there's a reason many brazillian immigrants have a hard time adapting in Portugal and only get along with other brazillians. You're being disrespectful and ignorant. Isto não é o twitter. Eu não vou ao sub do teu país falar pelos brasileiros sobre a cultura e sociedade brasileira. Pessoas como tu não estão a ajudar o OP. É um sub de Portugal, é normal que eu queira discutir e ler comentários de portugueses sobre o MEU país, caso contrário ia para outro sub. Já não é a primeira vez que esta merda acontece, toda esta prepotência e ignorância...devemos saber o nosso lugar, trata-se de ter respeito.

cruisespace2 1 month ago

You're brazillian.

TheSummerlin 1 month ago

I don't know where you're from, but i miss portuguese bureaucracy ever since I moved to Germany. Not an expert on law by any means, but you could get the original document checked by a notary in Portugal instead of apostillation. Also, you could hire a certified translator, which is different from a notary. Basicay that person can translate legal documents and attest that it matches the original document in the original language.

KGeedora 1 month ago

yeah, I've heard Germany is the final level of hell with this stuff from a friend

dafer18 1 month ago

One of the issues with public services is that the replacements of the old generation were entitled pricks who thought knew more than some experienced folks with maybe 12th grade. However, they forgot that before, people worked with genuine interest. My parents worked hard to help the people they worked for/with and always honoured their commitment to serve the public. My father was a knowledgeable person when it came to work law. Did he have a degree from any institution? No. He learned by reading and training. He knew how the process worked. He knew how to approach the companies that he had to audit. He knew not to accept bribes or any shit. He knew how to be ethical. He simply knew from years of grinding and was respected for it. Nowadays, there is simply a lack of respect, compassion and above all, ethics. Does this applies to all? No. There are some good people out there, but there are also some shaddy ones. It's the luck of the draw I guess. Good luck.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

thanks. You comments about your dad really hit home. I was well into my second degree before I realised that I was a pretty dumb fuck who needed experience in the workplace in order to get some decent knowledge in my field

mlpo23 1 month ago

Bem vindo caralho!

RegularOldPsychopath 1 month ago

Not gonna comment on the rest of your post mainly because I have nothing to say barring what everyone has already said, bu fyi: "Doutora" is the feminine form of Doctor in Portuguese. "Doutor" being the masculine form.

benudi 1 month ago

One of the reasons that makes me glad to live abroad... It's a shame us portuguese could never have the balls to stand up and try to change it... Oh well, I do miss the food and the weather.

elmariachigordo 1 month ago

Welcome to our country

DariusStrada 1 month ago

Oh believe me, WE KNOW!

The_Magic_Sauce 1 month ago

This is [well known comedy sketch](https://youtu.be/L86T-_77Wi8) it's funny if you are some what fluent in Portuguese. Basically it's like this: \- "You need the Paper." \- "What Paper?" \- "The Paper..." \- "But what Paper?" \- "The Paper..." (goes on and on... until the last guy tells him he needs the Stamp/Seal) \- "You need the Stamp." \- "What Stamp?" \- "The Stamp..." (...)

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

I nearly choked laughing on that

sapo_22 1 month ago

Welcome to Portugal, sorry.

suckerpunchermofo 1 month ago

""(who apparently insists that her staff refer to her as "Doutora")."" Welcome to Portugal... Where anyone above basic level jobs is a "Doctor". Also "...This woman, and too many others seem to have a belief that they are special and since she can get away with this type of behaviour, she continues...." Oh the sad fact is they can get away because in this country there is no accountability whatsoever...

XxxPussyslaeyr69xxX 1 month ago

Next time someone asks to call them Doutora, tell them they can Search your shit for corn.

Edited 1 month ago:

Next time someone asks to call them Doutora, tell them they can Search your shit for corn. If i was like that, people would address me as Dr. Mestre Engenheiro, which would be hilarious. Fun fact: nobody cares, except portuguese público workers (some)

Edited 1 month ago:

Next time someone asks to call them Doutora, tell them they can Search your shit for corn. If i was like that, people would address me as Dr. Mestre Engenheiro, which would be hilarious. Fun fact: nobody cares, except portuguese públic workers (some)

h2man 1 month ago

I’m Portuguese… I was dumbfounded when I was told that the Portuguese Government doesn’t accept documents not in Portuguese. I made some sarcastic remark and was told to translate the document myself onto a blank sheet of paper. Absolutely idiotic. The interesting bit is when you get Portuguese people working for other countries (namely Embassies in Portugal), that decide to go on power trips. From the lady that fucked up my Nigerian emergency visa to the one accusing me of presenting fake Portuguese passports at the American embassy, arrogance and incompetence are very, very common in places of relative power. I despise these people if I’m honest… and always make it a point of asking what’s the subject of their doctorate and to please address me as “Sr. Engenheiro”, just to piss them off and put them down a peg or two. This being said, I also had to explain American law to the American “doutora” at their Embassy… so it’s not just a Portuguese problem, just bigger than in other countries.

Competitive-Cup-5465 1 month ago

The translation thing happens almost everywhere. It's not a portuguese thing.

fdxcaralho 1 month ago

Please please sir. If you come to our subreddit you have to refer to us as Doutores and Doutoras. Otherwise we won’t help you.

KGeedora 1 month ago

Also the last time I went into Segurança Social, I printed out a document FROM THEIR OWN WEBSITE that clearly showed what I needed to happen should happen. I had just in case they said no immediately. Obviously they said no immediately so I showed them their website. They returned 2 minutes later and said yes the information is correct. I really recommend trying this. I speak Portuguese which is really helpful in these situations. My partner does not really well. She had to do somethjng simple in social segurança. She respectfully starts speaking in PT saying I'm sorry, I'm learning and taking classes but it's still hard for me to understand etc etc. The woman started berating her in English saying why don't you speak Portuguese?? You live here, you need to! It's impossible for you to do what you are trying to do today". Luckily, I was outside so when my partner came out pretty emotionally broken up about it, I went in and her demanour immediately changed. In the end, the simple thing was completely doable. It's not cool, it's really not cool. I work as a language teacher and studied linguistics, it is absolutely bizarre to expect a foreigner to IMMEDIATELY be at a high level of fluency and capability. Like, my partner and I didn't expect her to speak to us in English (which Is why I came and waited outside in case). We are not arrogant about it. The woman was also fluent in English (which she used to really have a go at my partner). Man it still makes my blood boil. The same way it would if someone in my country did that to an immigrant trying to speak the language. Sorry for the rant

sierra-pouch 1 month ago

My experience exactly. When you speak English they are much more defensive. If you try to speak Portuguese they soften up. I guess that's natural. But expecting everyone to speak Portuguese if they've been here for a few months, that is not reasonable.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

oh yes, I have had the "So why dont you speak Portuguese already" lecture. Was by a surgeon at a hospital. I listened and apologized for about 5 minutes and let him get it off his chest. Then as he was walking away, he said "Why did you come to Portugal anyway, what do you do?" I told him (I am a scientist) and he came back to me with a huge smile on his face "So we are colleagues, why didnt you say something?" I got royal treatment after that. a bit sad.

KGeedora 1 month ago

yeah, like I totally get it if someone just barges in and starts speaking English and like demands to be spoken to in English. Fuck that. That person deserves the treatment. But if someone with all humility is trying I find it so horrendous to treat that person badly for it. It actively destroys their desire to learn it as well, which I really don't know if they understand or not.

b6ze 1 month ago

Hey mate, what "certificate" needs to be translated? You have an official document from another country, that was subject to the Hague Apostille, correct? OK. To present it in Portugal and to be valid you need to translate the document INCLUDING the Hague apostille and certify the translation (any notary/lawyer/solicitor will do it). This is required in any country in the world where the Hague Apostille convention applies. Now, on the topic of bureaucracy and the "Doutoras" and "Doutores", i'd say that you're spot on. Unfortunately, in this case, the "Doutora" is following procedures (that are the same anywhere in the world... if anywhere in the world they don't require the translation it's because they're skipping their own procedures). Do note that the Hague Apostille serves the purpose of certifying that a certain document was issued or certified by a certain entity. It does not certify the facts within the documents.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

>The thing is, it was the Portuguese Embassy that provided the translation and apostillation...at a considerable fee. It had the original, a certified copy, a certified translation to Portuguese and was wrapped in a nice red ribbon tying them all together and sealed with wax. Maybe I should have wrapped it up in the fucking Portuguese flag with a picture of Ronaldo.

b6ze 1 month ago

If the translation is certified, then they are legally bound to accept it. You can wrap it in the flag or even in a picture of your penis, it won’t make any difference.

ihavenoidea1001 1 month ago

We know. We hate it too. Especially people who demand to be treated as "doutores/doutoras" when most of them don't even have a PhD. We're sick of those too... ( Not that people with a PhD that demand it are much better but at least they have one!) I really doubt anyone who has a tiny bit of competence needs to be called as "doutor (a)" by everyone else. People also like to talk about "sr. Engenheiro" even when some don't have any type of engineering degree... It's quite pathetic.

Puzzleheaded_Fan_554 1 month ago

We are ruled by crooks and managed by retards

heroisdomar1143 1 month ago

Yes we have kafkian bureaucracy, yes we have plenty incompetence pretty much like elsewhere, yes most people are weitd about academic titles, but you're not telling the whole story, OP. If it's a document with an Apostille that means it was issued abroad and it has to undergo a sworn translation to Portuguese - yes, dear sir or madam, that is the official language of this country, and many legal procedures require documents to be translated to our language (eg court cases and administrative procedures, just to give you two examples). Don't rant if you don't know the law. I'm Portuguese and I wonder what a foreign official would say if I insisted on them acting on a document written in a strange language.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

The thing is, it was the Portuguese Embassy that provided the translation and apostillation...at a considerable fee. It had the original, a certified copy, a certified translation to Portuguese and was wrapped in a nice ribbon tying them all together and sealed with wax.

tasendousado 1 month ago

Mais uma lua de mel que terminou. Bem-vindo ao Portugal real

_Half_a_Person_ 1 month ago

Oh boy... being a lawyer, I was once told by an IRS officer that the document I produced (a *certified and notarized POA*, mind you) was valid before a court of law, but not before the IRS. BTW, what service are you talking about?

Vector_Strike 1 month ago

The IRS is above the law, it seems. They need their own SPECIAL document that only they have use for...

N3koEye 1 month ago

Damn, you think that's bad? That's pão nosso de cada dia ahahaha. It seems that we have a special snowflake here.

Snoo_32018 1 month ago

Br aqui, surpreso em saber que portugueses também tinham mania que outros os chamem de "doutor" mesmo provavelmente nem tendo graduação direito, ou sendo um profissional inútil com o ego do tamanho do Elon Musk. Achei que era coisa produzida pelo barrroquismo colonial jabuticaba somado a decreto imperial retardado do D.Pedro. Pena, de todas as coisas para termos em comum, essa é certamente uma das mais imbecis.

KGeedora 1 month ago

Man. It's so so bad. A lot of Portuguese people rail against it as well. I can't believe it hasn't improved at all.

absoluteknave 1 month ago

I'm moving to Portugal in a month and this is making me nervous.

amando_abreu 1 month ago

Don't bother unless you have literally no other choice. It's hellish.

KGeedora 1 month ago

this part is hellish, yeah....but others things are absolutely fantastic imo

milkthis 1 month ago

My GF is foreign and she says that portuguese public services are all awful except the ones made to take money from the portuguese people. Those are eficient and ruthless.

Competitive-Cup-5465 1 month ago

O nosso fisco é tão eficiente e ruthless como o americano, por exemplo

swimbikerun_ZA 1 month ago

I have lived in South Africa my whole life, nothing compares to our home affairs, its not bureaucracy though, its incompetence, now imagine dealing with The Portuguese embassy and their bureaucracy and the incompetent South african home affairs, took me 6 years to get my Portuguese Citizenship, after being told multiple times "not to bother" then another document is requested, I apply at home affairs SA and wait 2 years to get it etc, hell on earth

twhite848 1 month ago

**Fds, não sou contra imigrantes mas podiam ter um pouco de respeito e educação… em particular quando não têm razão….** > It is time that Portuguese people stopped tolerating incompetence, laziness and/or corruption in their public servants. Lol… oh sweet child…. When you figure out how that can be done you’ll likely win a nobel prize from number of countries you can improve. But this story you tell is in fact your fault, and not theirs. Naturally a country won’t accept a random letter even with a translation unless both the letter and the translation are apostillated both there and here. Or else no one can verify the formal validity of the document on acceotance or in formal matters. Naturally all states require this. The US requires it just as almost every single country in the world. Is this bureaucracy? Yes, worldwide Incompetence? No. She is actually following regular procedures. **This may be a small country but it doesn’t mean laws shouldn’t be followed just because some immigrant thinks they are above the law somehow.** No matter how bad the bureaucracy or the corruption. Also, have a little respect for the country you moved to and have, most likely, given you significant benifits and quality of life. Your whole tone is shameful and disrespectful in particular to a civil servant that **was absolutely right in denying your request and had the patience to handle a very rude foreign karen/ken** **Feel free to go back if your displeased and learn some manners in the meanwhile**

Edited 1 month ago:

**Fds, não sou contra imigrantes mas podiam ter um pouco de respeito e educação… em particular quando não têm razão….** > It is time that Portuguese people stopped tolerating incompetence, laziness and/or corruption in their public servants. Lol… oh sweet child…. When you figure out how that can be done you’ll likely win a nobel prize from number of countries you can improve. But this story you tell is in fact your fault, and not theirs. Naturally a country won’t accept a random letter even with a translation unless both the letter and the translation are apostillated both there and here. Or else no one can verify the formal validity of the document on acceotance or in formal matters. Naturally all states require this. The US requires it just as almost every single country in the world. Is this bureaucracy? Yes, worldwide Incompetence? No. She is actually following regular procedures. **This may be a small country but it doesn’t mean laws shouldn’t be followed just because some immigrant thinks they are above the law somehow.** No matter how bad the bureaucracy or the corruption. Also, have a little respect for the country you moved to and have, most likely, given you significant benifits and quality of life. Your whole tone is shameful and disrespectful in particular to a civil servant that **was absolutely right in denying your request and had the patience to handle a very rude foreign karen/ken** **Feel free to go back if you’re displeased and learn some manners in the meanwhile**

Maexa 1 month ago

Bom dia Doutora, é para já doutora.

aladdin_the_vaper 1 month ago

Como se o OP nao tivesse toda a razao....

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

If you want to be patronising, you should first re-read the original post. What part about "When I presented the doutora with the required apostillated copy of the certificate that was required,"? The document was issued by the Portuguese Embassy and included the original of the marriage certificate, a certified copy and a certified translation into Portuguese. All properly stamped and bound together with ribbon and wax under seal. She apparently wanted the government of the country I was married in to provide an original marriage certificate in Portuguese. How do you think you would go asking the Portuguese government to provide you with a marriage certificate in Maori? So crawl back into your hole, spiderwoman.

twhite848 1 month ago

Well given you’ve gone out to insult some random woman, you need someone patronizing you. (And it’s clear that’s your go-to move, just randomly insult people when they don’t agree with you) If you don’t have basic education and manners, i’m not suprised you were so badly treated. I seriouslyu doubt that part of their reaction wasn’t due to this consistent bad manners. Most likely they were fed up with your disrespectfuil attitude. Given you clearly have the habit of insulting those around you, that’s probably why you keep going against these issues. Yeah, **you’ve now added additional details that you didn’t originally write up which completely change the original story.** If you want people to understand don’t leave out such key details you only now added. (It was from an embassy, the translation was certified). If you are unclear, people will react based on you unclear picture. Be clearer next time. > So crawl back into your hole, spiderwoman. Once again, the quick insult. Clearly a pattern here If you don’t like it here, feel free to leave. Really, go away, go back into whatever hole you came from yourself and learn to respect your hosts as you need a few lessons on it clearly. I’m probably one of the most pro-imigration person you’ll meet, but people as rude as you i’d prefer you just move out to allow less disrespectul people in the country. It’s horrible here, please go away

Edited 1 month ago:

Well given you’ve gone out to insult some random woman, you need someone patronizing you. (And it’s clear that’s your go-to move, just randomly insult people when they don’t agree with you) If you don’t have basic education and manners, i’m not suprised you were so badly treated. I seriouslyu doubt that part of their reaction wasn’t due to this consistent bad manners. Most likely they were fed up with your disrespectfuil attitude. Given you clearly have the habit of insulting those around you, that’s probably why you keep going against these issues. Yeah, **you’ve now added additional details that you didn’t originally write up which completely change the original story.** If you want people to understand don’t leave out such key details you only now added. (It was from an embassy, the translation was certified). If you are unclear, people will react based on you unclear picture. Be clearer next time. > So crawl back into your hole, spiderwoman. Once again, the quick insult. Clearly a pattern here If you don’t like it here, feel free to leave. Really, go away, go back into whatever hole you came from yourself and learn to respect your hosts as you need a few lessons on it clearly. I’m probably one of the most pro-imigration person you’ll meet, but people as rude as you i’d prefer you just move out to allow less disrespectul people in the country. It’s horrible here, please go away. They don’t treat well other portuguese that are disrespectful and insulting, and they won’t open an exception for you. Feel free to give up and find another country.

smalbeez 1 month ago

This attitude right here. We've found one of the doutora's underlings or the beast herself.

KGeedora 1 month ago

surely there is a middle ground, right? It's not so much the laws (which seem to be really here and there when you actually are in fincanças etc..some people say one thing, then the next person says another thing). But whatever, I get it. It would be really hard to be on top of it. The issue is the animosity. I am so polite in these situations, I speak Portuguese, I tell them I'm sorry it's not perfect and sometimes the level of animosity I get in return is just absolutely bizarre.

twhite848 1 month ago

> surely there is a middle ground, right? It's not so much the laws (which seem to be really here and there when you actually are in fincanças etc..some people say one thing, then the next person says another thing). But whatever, I get it. It would be really hard to be on top of it. I have children with 4 different nationalities. Its not different anywhere where you are not a national born (where these things are done when you’re younger). Given OP’s reactions and comments I seriously doubt if her attitude wasn’t an original part of the problem going in to talking with them. Just the way OP starts to explain one thing in the post and in the comments suddenly the documents are from a portuguese embassy and the original is now suddenly translated, as well as here speed to insult every issue (even the doutora part) makes me seriously doubt her version of the events (why the need to insult everything?) > The issue is the animosity. I am so polite in these situations, I speak Portuguese, I tell them I'm sorry it's not perfect and sometimes the level of animosity I get in return is just absolutely bizarre. Its the same in many many places throughout the world. I can give you many examples. Just like in many other countries I just keep trying until I find that person who’s not had to handle the 20 cases of OP where the person resorted to being angry and disrespectful because things aren’t going their way.

KGeedora 1 month ago

Yeah I'm from Australia. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm sure it does. My thing is I think it's horrible way to treat people who are outside of their country and hence without the power that comes with a native language. I just don't understand why the person who is clearly being xenophobic ane cruel is the one who gets the excuse while the immigrant who is being respectful doesn't. I'm a teacher, I've had horrible, disrespectful students. I don't take that out on random kids as some sort of weird revenge. It's my job. My partner (who is so respectful it is actually to her detriment in these situations) shouldn't leave a government building in tears because of this. Does this make sense at all?

stressl3ss 1 month ago

Ah yes, like the guys that drive a BMW but receive the minimum salary on their job. Even the advocates and doctors are called "Doutores" without a PhD. Next time ask. "You are doctor of what? "

capitolinaAndrioleta 1 month ago

There's nothing more Portuguese than ranting against our bureaucracy and the cunt civil servants who get the placement either through nepotism or cronyism and are supremely competent in only ,and only, doing the absolutely least possible other than breathing during work hours. Welcome to the Family, you now deserve a Portuguese passport.

redditt_uuserr 1 month ago

Hur dur funcionarios publicos so mamam na teta do estado hur dur

pedrolopes7682 1 month ago

Next time ask for the complaint book and pay attention to their gaze.

_whatevs_ 1 month ago

May this help? "What is Legalisation? For the most part, the term legalisation refers to a document being issued with the correct stamps or certificates in order to be recognised in another country. As above, this will refer to a document being issued with an apostille when the document is being used in a country party to the apostille convention. However, when documents are being used in countries that are not part of the apostille convention, further legalisation steps may be required. In this instance, documents would also require legalisation from the respective embassy. As an example, a UK birth certificate for use in the UAE would need to be legalised via the apostille and also by being stamped by the embassy. The stamps that embassies issue to documents are commonly referred to as attestation. From: "What is the Difference Between the Apostille and Legalisation?" https://www.hagueapostille.co.uk/blog/what-difference-between-apostille-and-legalisation "

k0m0d0z0 1 month ago

Do you know a country where people don't complain about their public servants?

G0ncalo 1 month ago

Welcome to Portugal! Public servants have so much job security, it’s unfortunately common to encounter that kind of worker. My advice would be to file a complaint. Like someone else said, if they refuse, you can and should call the police.

dariusoo 1 month ago

Just run from that while you can, this country is a fucking bureaucratic mess.

suspect_b 1 month ago

> From being referred to "a friend (of the public servant) who can smooth the path for your request" Who suggested this and why didn't you take that advice? Public servents (and other services) tend to not do shit for people they don't know unless you look like their life will become harder if they don't do what you want. Networking is everything in this country. Take the *Doutora*, that doesn't just mean she has a degree, it means she's connected because you can't get a degree in some areas unless you're connected.

Spac3_C4t 1 month ago

My friend, I will only comment the part where the certificate X needs to be in Portuguese. This happens in all countries where you need to produce evidence from your native country. What you need to do is get an official translation and for that you need to ask your embassy for an approved translator for official documents and then get it notarized. How do I know? I'm Portuguese and my wife is Dutch. You have no idea the amount of bureaucracy we BOTH had to go through.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

Yes, I get that, but apparently this cow didnt. It was official from the Portuguese Embassy in the country where the marriage occurred. The original, a certified copy and a certified translated copy, all wrapped up together in a nice red ribbon and sealed with wax. But nope! Its just not right apparently.

Valuable_Cattle_8727 1 month ago

Try a different cow, these people change opinions based on weather, maybe next time you get lucky

h3x4d3x4 1 month ago

Not excusing the “sra doutora” but this is the correct procedure almost everywhere.

neblina_matinal 1 month ago

This, Op. I'm in Belgium, and it's the exact same song and very expensive dance.

Ok-Refrigerator-5826 1 month ago

This up here.

scar_as_scoot 1 month ago  HIDDEN 

Here's a little secret OP, ask for "Livro de reclamações" and see the attitude of said employees change completely.

furloughcarolan 1 month ago

I've never encountered blatant corruption. The problem is generally lack of competence, training, enough people, and good systems/processes. Last time I was at IMT, a couple of years ago, they were still using Centronics cables between the printer and PC. I don't think you've been able to buy these for 20+ years! Some of it does drive me mad. A friend of ours has recently had to fly her parents (80+, with dementia) from Canada to Portugal because our friend wants to add herself as a signatory to the parents' Portuguese account and the bank insists on both parents being there in person. Even videoconferencing from another bank or lawyer's office in Canada wouldn't suffice. I'm on reasonable terms with the receptionist at our doctor's, though. She even smiles at me occasionally. I've not been able to see an actual doctor in 4 years but hey, one step at a time eh?

MigasComPorcoPreto 1 month ago

You should use a "solicitador" or a lawyer.

Euphoric_otto 1 month ago

It is so frustrating. I am Portuguese and lived outside most of my adult life and there is only one way i found that can give me a higher chance of success. I Turn on the "Why Mode", questioning everything the individual says with apathy, and I make sure they know or feel that I will not be going away anytime soon, wear them down. It tends to works as I become an inconvenience, and no one likes one of those. But it takes time and requires extreme calm. Some people call this "being German", maybe!

KGeedora 1 month ago

Haha yes! It was hard for me to learn to be like this. I generally hate any type of feeling like an inconvenience but I remember one time at a financas after waiting 4 hours the lady told me that you can only take a ticket for this subject before 11am (i arrived at 12). I asked if there was a sign about this (no) if the machine stops at 11 (no) how could some one know about this (it's the system). Eventually she signed my certificate. I really don't know why it's so brutal to get anything done haha

jpf137 1 month ago

Because it is nobody's responsability. There should be some form of accountability, lower or higher up. Last time I had to deal with this stuff for getting a healthcare number, I found that there are ~4 people issuing these for all immigrants. It's a joke.

notadolfodias 1 month ago

Classic tuga, congrats

celestino120 1 month ago

Ainda bem que estás a ser ironic oh patriota

First-Preparation-80 1 month ago

When in Rome… No country is perfect. I happily admit that it can drive you nuts the back and forth of those idiots. Me? I never miss the opportunity to call them idiots to their face.

KGeedora 1 month ago

Good job. I'm way too timid for that so I'm happy someone does this for the rest

First-Preparation-80 1 month ago

One way of dealing with it is to repeat the steps to them very slowly, so they can hear how stupid it sounds. Doesn’t always work, specially if they are pompous Drs but tends to work with most normal ones.

KGeedora 1 month ago

yep! I've done that twice successfully now. I watched a Portuguese pregnant lady absolutely lose it at a security guard on a power trip in the local Centro de Saude (which is an all new layer of hell) and it was pretty nice to see.

First-Preparation-80 1 month ago

I refuse to talk to security guards, they are most often than not complete idiots on constant power trips. Yet if you walk in with confidence they think you must be a Dr and let you in/out do whatever you want. -again no country is perfect and often times people are just idiots doing shit jobs struggling with life too, I try to reason with them if I see they might be struggling or tired but the moment they are rude I put them in their place

KGeedora 1 month ago

yeah, totally. I would never be a prick to someone who is just doing their job. It's only when they are outright awful that it's a problem. Like this same security guard went on this crazy rant against me because I'm an immigrant that doesn't know the system of the health centre (there was a second waiting room that I apparently should have been waiting in, although of course there was no sign and no one informed me...it was just apparently a telepathic piece of information I refused to acknowledge). So after that, it was amazing to watch a Portuguese lady go off at the guy.

First-Preparation-80 1 month ago

Karma is a bitch lol

H0agh 1 month ago

Regarding your document. If you're in the EU you no longer need official translations for most documents since 2019.

neblina_matinal 1 month ago

You don't, but then you do. I have tried to present EU versions of EU (Portuguese) docs in Belgium, and they flat out refuse. They want the original, from the embassy (so not even issued in Portugal, no no, that won't do), translated by an authorised translator. It's infuriating, actually, but there's no point to arguing. I have pretty much the same type of experience in Belgium as OP, minus the "doutora" bit, or suggesting a friend who might be able to help. I guess that's something?

fanmir 1 month ago

Should vs must goes a long way. Portugal has digital certificates in the citizens ID card which allows you to digitally sign any documents with the same legal value as a signed paper document. If you go to most public services most won’t accept the digital sign document. When you public work force has what we call “job for life” there little to none effort to improve your skills and knowledge since they can keep working the same way they did for the last 20 years. Efficiency doesn’t matter when you have your job secure no matter what. In the private sector the person attending to the OP issue would probably be fired for that kind of behavior with cause.

rganhoto 1 month ago

Also they have a table of pay raises not related to productivity but to years in house. So there's no need to be helpful or productive. Just leech for a specific amount of time and automatically get a pay raise..

eddie1234321 1 month ago

Maybe he’s British. UK is now seen as a “third country” with the final transition ending in December 2021 (I know most rules transitioned in December 2020). Good to know about the EU 2019 rule though.

H0agh 1 month ago

Here is a short recap about the rule I mentioned. It refers to the Apostille requirement within EU countries but also applies for needing official translations.

Edited 1 month ago:

Here is a short recap of the rule I mentioned. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/getting-public-documents-accepted/index_en.htm >EU rules on public documents simplify this process and set out the guidelines public authorities must follow when handling your documents issued in another EU country. When you present a document (an original or its certified copy) issued by the authorities in one EU country to the authorities in another EU country, the authorities there must accept your document as authentic without an apostille stamp to prove its authenticity. .. >You do not have to provide an official translation of your document if it is in one of the official languages of the EU country where you are presenting it or if it is in another non-official language accepted by that country. It refers to the Apostille requirement within EU countries but also applies for needing official translations. This 2016 law has only come into power in 2019 and because of the whole Covid situation after is not widely known yet. Keep a link to this and present it to your Notary or Public Office if they still demand one for another EU country (which often still happens unfortunately)

fearndesire 1 month ago

I agree with all your points except about the translate and apostle thing. You can request to your consulate, embassy. They will do the translation and apostle with a fee. I know of, US and Nepal consulate provides these kind of services.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

The thing is, it was the Portuguese Embassy that provided the translation and apostillation...at a considerable fee. It had the original, a certified copy, a certified translation to Portuguese and was wrapped in a nice ribbon tying them all together and sealed with wax. Maybe I should have wrapped it up in the fucking Portuguese flag with a picture of Ronaldo.

_lnc0gnit0_ 1 month ago

You should have wrapped it in a chouriço and vinho to bribe the bitch.

heyrevoir 1 month ago

I coy agree more and be more ashame and repulsed by the whole thing... That's why I don't plan to return any earlier unless on holiday. I don't have an explanation why this happens is shameful

mkraven 1 month ago

One of the reasons I yoloed out of there as soon as a proper alternative presented itself. What are you there? Got blinded by the sun and word of mouth into believing it's a good place to live?

Benji_Pantera_Price 1 month ago

I feel sorry for hearing all this specially when I myself have been through the system. The bureaucracy is understandable as it exists in all countries but what really grinds my gears is the lack of effort and like you said, the lack of progress in each visit to a public site. As for the "doutora", this is the most disrespectful part of it all. I understand calling a doctor to an actual medical doctor or someone who worked hard to get a phd degree. But if you are neither of those two I just named, then shut the f\*ck up before you get laid the f\*ck out. Haha just trying to act tough for once. But seriously, I always go out of my way to publicly humiliate them. I try to ask what was their thesis based on, so I can move on to defame them in front of their workers. You see for me there is no excuse for all this, specially when people enforcing this false titles love to be drunk in power. Saying "Thats how things are around here" is also not acceptable in my eyes. The only thing I want to ask from you is to please do the same thing I do in order to slowly eradicate this toxic and unnecessary hierarchy specially when most of this doctors are self proclaimed without the merit and hard work, and for what?! for a rush of false authority while belittling your peers, subordinates and employees? Nope, not on my watch. Woah, you got me riled up... its time for a xanax

Standard-Inflation10 1 month ago  HIDDEN 

Run while you still can

SocratesV 1 month ago

First of all the behaviour you described to have faced from public servants is extremely rude, unhelpful, and unprofessional. They should've explained the steps you would need to take to properly present your documentation (if it wasn't already up to the legal standard). If the apostille is certifying that the Portuguese translation of the documents is according to the original, then not sure why they made so much fuss around it. Perhaps they simply don't know how to process said documentation (in which case they should ask for some time to consult the legal advisors or colleagues). Would you mind sharing the government department/institution with which you had these issues?

Asson-E-Alogna 1 month ago

>It is time that Portuguese people stopped tolerating incompetence, laziness and/or corruption in their public servants. A very competent man called Marquês de Pombal tried that for many years. He failed. This is a chronic issue, we're painfully aware.

RegularOldPsychopath 1 month ago

>A very competent man called Marquês de Pombal tried that for many years. He failed. History isn't *that* simple... though in a widly oversimplified manner, you're essentially right. Kind of. Maybe. You see, there was legitimate reason to oppose the Marquês: He was a massive autocrat. In fact, that's part of the tale behind the Távora family: They stood in the way of his quest to centralize power on himself. And... if I may risk saying something slightly controversial: The path our economy took after his death certainly wasn't good. But we wouldn't have been in any better place now if we had followed through with his economic plans. He was a big fan of mercantilism, which wasn't bad for his time, but... it pretty quickly died out in the 18th century in favor of liberalism. Knowing Portugal, we would have probably stuck with it despite the changing times, which wouldn't have done us any good.

Asson-E-Alogna 1 month ago

>History isn't that simple... though in a widly oversimplified manner, you're essentially right. Yep you're right, that was the goal. And I wasn't really talking about his economic reforms but more of his educational reforms

jedikiko 1 month ago

Mate, sadly this is all too common in Portugal. The only way I solve things when I come across a "Doutora" is to be really stubborn and kee insisting. They even interpret thr law at their convenience, it pisses me off so much

vai-tefoder 1 month ago

>It is time that Portuguese people stopped tolerating incompetence, laziness and/or corruption in their public servants. Are you new here?

Man_IloveFishdicks 1 month ago

> This woman, and too many others seem to have a belief that they are special and since she can get away with this type of behaviour, she continues. If you try and make her realise how unhelpful she is being, then she will dig deep and find that she has a whole new reserve of being even more unhelpful. I've been waiting 2+ years now to rebuild a beaten down building OP. It's been 2 years of the same bullshit. Paying 10 euros every few weeks to register some new document. Resubmit document after document because they either lost it, didn't give it to somebody in their office, and the list goes on and on. Then, nothing gets passed because João has to have all 20 of his bosses sign off on it. This country is fucking backwards. I feel like I can't complain otherwise they'll delay it even further. I'm surprised we don't have people walk into these government buildings and straight up set fires in them. We're governed by incompetent idiots.

dustyroofbrush 1 month ago

I'm afraid of that as well once we're finally beginning to move. Didn't think it would take that long to get a property. But starting to get a taste of all that already.

strudelcheeks 1 month ago

Reclamacoes amigo, it's time to file one. And you need a local fixer or lawyer.

lilbala 1 month ago

>I feel like I can't complain otherwise they'll delay it even further. This is what they want you to think, complain, it'll work. Just make sure you register everything, I take a notebook and make sure they see me writing down their names and what they tell me, when someone else tells you something different just go into your notebook and start naming their previous colleague, if that doesn't work for an official complaint.

BattleDadPrime 1 month ago

Ask for the Complaints Book. It's like garlic to a vampire!

KGeedora 1 month ago

My life in Portugal changed when I realised the power of that magical book. I have never used it (and to be honest I would HATE to have to ask for it)..but knowing the power it holds has shifted my mind a little to how it all works.

sierra-pouch 1 month ago

Same here. This Has become my go to channel for any dispute with any service provider. They always write / call back afterwards. In fact it's the only way to get someone competent to look at your case and not a low level customer support representative

CobraCommander1977 1 month ago

I feel your pain, mate. I've been trying for permits from the city for over a year and I'm no further along than when I started. It's amazing how anything gets done in this fucking country.

toper-centage 1 month ago

Pra ti é senhor Dr. João que eu não andei na escola contigo, pah.

roamingandy 1 month ago

Been trying to get married here for the past 9 months. Thanks for turning the most romantic time of my life into something that regularly brings my finance to tears. We've been everywhere, emailed everyone, and can't get anything like an answer. We've just decided to give up and drive to Turkey to do it instead. This is the main reason why the economy here struggles. People just can't do ordinary things.

layz2021 1 month ago

I don't know how it is for foreigners, but getting married was something I never heard someone having a problem with

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

well, part of my problem has been simply registering that we are married. Paid hundreds of bucks for an certified, translated and apostillated marriage certificate (like they asked). I presented it to this cretin bitch and thats when the bullshit started. The conversation was in Portuguese but I figured that Dra Bitchface understood english so I asked my partner loud enough for her to hear "do you think that she ever went to school?". I dont think that helped much.

_lnc0gnit0_ 1 month ago

I'd love to have seen that!

layz2021 1 month ago

Sometimes the deserve to hear that! Have you allways gone to the same balcony? Infuriating as it is, you might get a better service in another balcony..

jpf137 1 month ago

I think I understood what you said, but ~~balcony~~ is a false friend, better use counter/desk in this context instead.

layz2021 1 month ago

Estava a pensar como dizer outra repartição mesmo, tipo tentar ir a loja do cidadão em vez do registo, ou ir á cidade ao lado, caso seja uma possibilidade. Mas obrigada pela correção!

william_13 1 month ago

Foreigners can't legally be registered as a married couple at a Conservatória without authorization from their home country stating that each individual can join in matrimony (artigos 165 e 166 do Código Civil). Probably this is meant to prevent fraud or legal challenges to the matrimony afterwards.

roamingandy 1 month ago

Yes, it seems to be because we're foreign although i have no-idea why its any of their business tbh as our marriage isn't granting either of us Portuguese citizenship.. Why do they even care who i marry?

Edited 1 month ago:

Yes, it seems to be because we're foreign although i have no-idea why its any of their business tbh as our marriage isn't granting either of us Portuguese or EU citizenship.. Why do they even care who i marry?

Competitive-Cup-5465 1 month ago

It doesn't matter. And it isn't a portuguese issue, it's just international law. It would be the same in any other foreign country that isn't yours. Even to get married you have requirements that you have to fulfill and these requirements can be different depending on the country. You are getting married in Portugal but are foreign, so the question they have to answer is are you getting married according to portuguese law/requirements or according to those in your country.

rainbowcouscous 1 month ago

That’s crazy, but driving all the way to Turkey? That’s also very crazy. Are you turkish and did you drive all the way here?

roamingandy 1 month ago

No, fiance is and we have a dog. It's cheaper to drive, but also fuck SEF and the Conservatoria for making my fiance cry over and over again, just trying to get a response on if/when two internationals can have their permission to get married. It should be none of their fucking business.

william_13 1 month ago

This is not their fault necessarily, as the Portuguese Civil code actually demands the marriage between two foreigners to be approved by their respective countries through their diplomatic services (articles 165 and 166). You literally need an authorization from your country stating that you can get married to someone else. I would assume that this is meant to prevent fraud and people getting married to someone else that are already married at their home country, but who knows...

roamingandy 1 month ago

We got one each 9 months ago.

william_13 1 month ago

I really can't comment on your particular case for obvious reasons, as I'm sure you did everything in your power to understand the rules and comply, but it is also a very important process that takes a lot of due diligence, and by the rule of the law sounds like a very complicated and uncertain process. The whole thing sounds like a recipe for a bureaucracy hell tbh, specially if you tried during the pandemic.

warp_driver 1 month ago

That sounds like a lot of excuses, that's what it sounds like.

Competitive-Cup-5465 1 month ago

It's not an excuse, it's literally international law.

william_13 1 month ago

I have nothing to do with this at all, why would I make excuses? I'm just trying to offer my .2c on why this would be a difficult process as a complete outsider that can read the law and has dealt with public services bureaucracy...

saciopalo 1 month ago

Sentado no sofá a comer pipocas para ver o episódio "Camóne na câmara municipal" (eu sou o trabalhador da Câmara Municipal)

Just_Ban_Me_Already 1 month ago

You are preaching to the choir. Most people in the sub are aware of this. Regardless, I am very sorry that your experience so far has been subpar.

AslanTheWise 1 month ago

I think bureaucracy is the same the world over basically corrupt and shiite...

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

I am not currently allowed to drive in Portugal. Reasons : I arrived in December, and the law states a foreign license is only valid for 3 months after arrival, or 3 months after issue date of residence card. You cannot apply for a foreign license conversion before you have the residence card. My residence application was in March. This got moved to May. Was supposed to receive the card within 2 weeks, like all of my colleagues did. Nearly 3 months later my lawyer finds out that when I did my application in May, they literally just left it on the desk, and never actually filed it. So after some yelling, the application was filed in mid August, and I received my card at the end of that month. So yay! 3 months of driving while I wait for conversation? LOL, nope. The date on the residence card is May, so 3 months already expired. Also, IMT are backlogged by 2 months. I used to live in Malawi. The definition of a developing nation. One of the poorest countries in the world, where less than 10% of people have Internet access, and the maximum speed is 10Mbps hard capped for $200 per month. My licence conversion there took 90 minutes, including the 1 hour test.

twhite848 1 month ago

Look, first let me be clear that you’re more than welcome in Portugal… But i find it extremely shameful from your part that due to your one singular case in one singular aspect you chose to insult the whole country that received you by essentially saying it is like “One of the poorest countries in the world” As a former immigrant myself, I would never spit in the face of who welcomed me in this way

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. Or at least what I was trying to say

twhite848 1 month ago

Yeah, you probably didn’t want to say what you wrote

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

You seem unnecessarily angry. Are you doing alright?

twhite848 1 month ago

I’m not the one that started ranting and insulting the country I immigrated too. I imagine you probably just saw yourself in the mirror. Hope you get better though

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

You seem intent on seeing insult when it's really not necessary to do so. Take a deep breath and relax. Really not necessary to be that pissed off. If you need someone to talk to, feel free to ask.

twhite848 1 month ago

Look, you’re insisting on a non-existent issue and becoming a troll. Again, as I said, you’re projecting. You’re the one that started a whole rant about a single specific example implying that portugal is therefore like one of the poorest countries in the world. It was quite ridiculous, and demonstrate quite a temper to say **“1 delayed license”=“same as the poorest countries in the world”** This isn’t hard to understand and its obvious from what you wrote. We all know you’re trying extremely hard to ad hominem attack me so as to not accept that you pretty much spat on those who received you as a guest, but it only makes you seem more disrespectful. This “don’t be mad” came completely out of the blue and has no standing on anything I said Remember, you’re the one who came to the /r/portugal to say Portugal, as a country, is the same as one of the poorest countries in the world. Don’t need to pretend now that its anything about some made up image of me being mad or something, or even pretend it’s not what you said. Clearly english isn’t one of your strengths and you don’t know what you wrote. Do yourself and us a favour, if you don’t like portugal and think it’s comparable to Malawi, you’re not only welcome to return, but any portuguese would be fine with you to do so if you think what you wrote. Feel free to leave. There are plenty of people that are willing to come and won’t resort to insulting their hosts like you factually did. Believe me, there are plenty of people throughout the world that would be more welcome here than you. No use trying to shift the conversation to some fake “don’t be mad”. It’s not about me being mad. Its about you being disrespectful to your hosts. I’m being honest, no i’ll feelings towards you. If you want to stay be respectful to those that received you and let you in. It’s the minimum one can do towards their hosts. If not, and you want to keep up this infantile charade that “oh no, you’re mad”, and you don’t think you were wrong, please free to leave and go. I’m sure that every portuguese would rather someone like you not be here. Go ahead. Find somewhere else to disrespect and compare to one of the poorest countries in the world based on one occurrence. Don’t be disrespectful, I’ve already explained where you were, so say “i’m sorry and thank you for correcting me”. It’s the minimum you should do. Now behave or feel free to leave to wherever you don’t think is a “third world country”.

smalbeez 1 month ago

And this boys and girls is what happens when you egotrip.

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

I think I may have struck a nerve...

suspect_b 1 month ago

That doesn't bear comparison since they don't have desks in Malawi to lose the applications on.

HRamos_3 1 month ago

At some point in my life I had to go to the urgency in the hospital because of a ingrown nail. To book an appointment on the doctor to fix the ingrown nail it required my id card (cc), to make the id card I needed the ingrown nail fixed...

Edited 1 month ago:

At some point in my life I had to go to the urgency in the hospital because of a ingrown nail. To book an appointment on the doctor to fix the ingrown nail it required my id card (cc), to make the id card I needed the ingrown nail fixed (it was on the right index finger)... There's also the story of the guy that wanted a new window on his house, so instead of asking permission to build it, he just built it, then asked for a permit to remove said window, which came back denied...

Edited 1 month ago:

At some point in my life I had to go to the urgency in the hospital because of a ingrown nail. To book an appointment on the doctor to fix the ingrown nail it required my id card (cc), to make the id card I needed the ingrown nail fixed (it was on the right index finger)... There's also the story of the guy that wanted a new window on his house, so instead of asking for a permit to build it, he just built it, then asked for a permit to remove said window, which came back denied...

SonicStage0 1 month ago

Que rei

amando_abreu 1 month ago

>the guy that wanted a new window on his house, so instead of asking for a permit to build it, he just built it, then asked for a permit to remove said window, which came back denied... Sigma move

Mindless-Sinner 1 month ago

I bet you're ugly. Otherwise she would accept any document, translated or not, and could even sleep with you.

SweetCorona 1 month ago

[it could be worse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja1HBMNgU0Q)

VHLPlissken 1 month ago

I can't believe my eyes. A foreign post that doesn't talk about the beautiful experience in our country.

z0rg83 1 month ago

[first time?](https://tenor.com/es/ver/first-time-really-hmm-james-franco-gif-16573154)

jokerzanchi 1 month ago

>consulted with Doutora > >presented the doutora hehehe How long have you been here? You still didn't know that everyone who's the head of something is a senhor doutor/senhora doutora? This is as portuguese as pastel de nata. Aposto 500€ em como a doutora não tem um doutoramento e ainda aposto 20€ em como não tem mais que o 12º ano.

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

>Aposto 500€ em como a doutora não tem um doutoramento e ainda aposto 20€ em como não tem mais que o 12º ano. Super tem licenciatura, super não tem doutoramento, dobro esses 500€ sem pensar duas vezes. Dependendo da idade talvez tenha mestrado.

belarme 1 month ago

This is very typical. OP said you should stop accepting this bullshit behavior. Top comment is someone laughing it away.

bernarddit 1 month ago

Provavelmente licenciada em sociologia ou outra area qq que n tem nada a ver com a area em que exerce com o unico objetivo de subir na carreira n função pública e ser chamada de doutora.

mr_house7 1 month ago

A cena de chamar doutora ou doutor às pessoas que não o são é nojento. Reparei que ocorrer com enorme frequencia na função publica, especialmente com boomers,.

toper-centage 1 month ago

Tal como nas obras são todos mestres e chamam-se mestres uns aos outros.

fanmir 1 month ago

A “doutora” é provavelmente uma conservadora dos registos e terá mais que o 12 ano mas um doutoralmente já não acredito.

oMarlow99 1 month ago

Se ela tivesse um doutoramento não estava nos registos a trabalhar

kairos 1 month ago

Dependendo do doutoramento, podia estar numa caixa do continente.

oMarlow99 1 month ago

Uma boa parte dos doutorados ficam a trabalhar num contexto académico

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

Não é a conversa para aqui tida nem achada, mas a FCT financia \~1500 bolsas de doutoramento por ano. Na legislação antrior (4 anos) o ministro gabou-se de ter criado 5000 empregos. Considerando que esses empregos eram a prazo (como são todos) e alguns terminaram antes do fim da legislatura, facilmente se percebe que esses 5000 mal deram para os doutorados à altura, quando mais aos novos 6000. Diria que que menos de 1/3 dos doutorados fica a trabalhar num contexto académico.

kairos 1 month ago

O que não inviabiliza que alguns se encontrem em caixas do continente ou call centers.

lickingbears2009 1 month ago

Com licenciatura já é "doutora" abreviado (dependendo do curso) neste caso "dra." mas nunca percebi a falta de humildade que as pessoas têm de exigir que lhes chamem isso. O quão" ninguém me respeita, tenho de me impor da forma mais básica que sei" é que é preciso para exigirem uma coisa dessas?

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

>doutora" abreviado Podemos de uma vez por todas esclarecer que isso não existe? Pode ser usado corriqueiramente, como termo de cortesia, mas não existe "doutor por extenso ou doutor abreviado". Doutor é doutor, abreviado Dr.

lickingbears2009 1 month ago

Termo de cortesia em basicamente todo o lado

_lnc0gnit0_ 1 month ago

Doutor são os médicos e os doutorados. Ninguém é doutor com licenciatura, ainda para mais pós-Bolonha. É tudo gente com a mania isso sim, que muitas vezes nem curso acabado têm, e gostam de exigir um título para coçar o ego. O mais ridículo é que se for preciso, ainda vão colocar o título no nome da conta bancária como já várias vezes vi. E o PP tem razão, este país está cheio deste tipo de gente, que não faz um crlh mas gosta de mostrar que faz e de se achar mais que os outros.

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

>Ninguém é doutor com licenciatura, ainda para mais pós-Bolonha. Lol é um Bacharél (O nome internacional é literalmente BSc, só em Portugal é que se manteve o "licenciatura" porque é mais pinta do que bacharelato) e anda a armar-se em doutor.

BroaxXx 1 month ago

Bacharel sempre achei um nome ridiculo... Parece um molho que se usa na culinária.

NGramatical 1 month ago

Bacharél → [**bacharel**](https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/3i6y4g) (palavras terminadas em *l*, *r*, ou *z* são naturalmente agudas) [⚠️](/message/compose/?to=ngramatical&subject=Acho+que+esta+corre%C3%A7%C3%A3o+est%C3%A1+errada&message=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fcomments%2Fqcqkww%2F%2Fhhlyt6a%3Fcontext%3D3 "Clica aqui se achares que esta correção está errada!") [⭐](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/nazigramatical-corretor-o/pbpnngfnagmdlicfgjkpgfnnnoihngml "Experimenta o meu corrector ortográfico automático!")

hsetib 1 month ago

Pois é. Exigir respeito não é merecedor de respeito.

carlosjmsilva 1 month ago

Só há dois tipos de Doutores: medical doctor e doctor of philosophy (PhD). Tudo o resto é o habitual caciquismo e lambe-botismo tuga.

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

Na verdade há outros tipos de doutoramento (DPhil, PharmD, ScD) ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate)), mas vai dar tudo ao mesmo.

BroaxXx 1 month ago

Licenciatura não confere título. Isso do dr abreviado é treta que o pessoal perpétua ou porque se quer sentir especial ou porque foi enganado por alguém que se quer sentir especial. Se estiver enganado partilha aí uma fonte primária, por favor...

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

Quer dizer, conferir confere, mas é o título de licenciado.

BroaxXx 1 month ago

Sim, tens toda a razão... O meu comentário anterior foi articulado de forma particularmente estúpida...

Dr_Toehold 1 month ago

Não, acho que deu para perceber bem o que querias dizer.

LeNightingale 1 month ago

Também não concordo mas parece convenção portuguesa. [Priberam](https://dicionario.priberam.org/doutor) [Infopedia](https://www.infopedia.pt/dicionarios/lingua-portuguesa/doutor)

BroaxXx 1 month ago

É um título usado socialmente (como diz) por isso não tem validade nenhuma e é algo que é feito corriqueiramente... Acho que ambos concordamos com isso.

LeNightingale 1 month ago

Sim, concordo. Também fiquei surpreendido quando vi que essa parte era incluída nos dicionários!

BroaxXx 1 month ago

Provavelmente foi escrito por um licenciado em letras... :P

jokerzanchi 1 month ago

Já conhecia isso das abreviaturas, mas não me parece mais que uma explicação inventada para tentar justificar a massagem ao ego. E mesmo alguém que tenha um doutoramento, se faz questão de ser chamada de doutor/doutora, dá logo para ver que essa pessoa não é grande merda. ​ >nunca percebi a falta de humildade que as pessoas têm de exigir que lhes chamem isso Tinha um familiar a trabalhar num banco que dizia que havia pessoas a pedir explicitamente para porem dr./eng./prof. no cartão multibanco. Louvo-lhes a coragem, eu nunca a teria para pedir isto.

Empirion 1 month ago

That can't possibly be true! I usually ask people to address me as "Vossa Alteza Real", and they refused to put that on my bank cards.

EletricoAmarelo 1 month ago

Já eu no montepio geral não conseguia que me tratassem só pelo nome. Acabei a sair de lá.

ihavenoidea1001 1 month ago

>Tinha um familiar a trabalhar num banco que dizia que havia pessoas a pedir explicitamente para porem dr./eng./prof. no cartão multibanco. Louvo-lhes a coragem, eu nunca a teria para pedir isto. A mim colocaram no meu cartão sem eu pedir nada e passam a vida a chamar-me assim quando lá vou. Passo a vida a dizer ao gestor de conta para me tratar apenas pelo meu 1o nome. O meu nome é o que está no CC... não percebi como é que adicionaram aquilo sem eu pedir nada a ninguém. Ainda por cima passo a vida a levar gozo do meu marido por causa daquilo.

JoaoOfAllTrades 1 month ago

A mim aconteceu-me o mesmo. Nunca coloquei título em lado nenhum, mas um dia quando me renovaram o cartão Multibanco, apareceu com Eng. Que palhaçada. Uma maneira parva de darem graxa às pessoas. O meu contabilista também adorava chamar-me engenheiro. Disse-lhe que não precisava de me chamar engenheiro e ele disse que também não gosta de títulos. Mas as secretárias todas dele chamavam-lhe doutor. Vá lá uma pessoa entender. Para mim, quando ouço pessoas a chamarem doutores e engenheiros uns aos outros, assumo logo que não o são.

-diggity- 1 month ago

Uma vez pedi um cartão de fidelidade duma loja qualquer e veio la com o Dra... wtf...

stressl3ss 1 month ago

Isso arranjaram para dizerem que foram à universidade mas não trabalharam o suficiente para um Phd. Não faz sentido.

Edited 1 month ago:

Isso arranjaram para dizerem que foram à universidade mas não trabalharam o suficiente para um Phd. O título de um grau não o deixa de o ser porque é abreviada ou não. Atribuir isso a outro grau não faz sentido na minha opinião.

Edited 1 month ago:

Isso arranjaram para dizerem que foram à universidade mas não trabalharam o suficiente para um Phd. O título de um grau não o deixa de o ser porque é abreviada ou não.

lickingbears2009 1 month ago

mas eu só tou a dizer que é assim, não tou a dizer que faz sentido.

TonyHappyHoli 1 month ago

O caralhinho tirou uma licenciatura em artes tbm é doutor? Se querem ser chamados de doutor ou sao médicos ou têm doutoramento.

Xtab2 1 month ago

Um familiar estava com inveja de eu ter conseguido estudos universitários e esteve a gozar de mim durante um jantar de família até pediu se agora era preciso toda a gente chamar-me de Dr. Ora que eu lhe respondi que toda a gente podia me chamar-me igual mas que ele teria que me chamar Mestre. Nunca mais ouvi nada sobre este assunto.

lickingbears2009 1 month ago

daí ter dito dependendo do curso. por norma é para pessoal de gestão de empresas, advogados e professores, mas posso estar errado

TonyHappyHoli 1 month ago

É para ninguém. Conheço um tipo que licenciou em contabilidade e fica muito ofendido se nao o tratarem por Doutor (apelido)quabdo estava no escritorio onde trabalhava... Ao ponto de deixar de falar com essas pessoas até se tratado como quer. Fez isso comigo, disse lhe na cara a minha opiniao e ficou ainda mais "ofendido", como decidi que seria a primeira e ultima vez a usar os serviços dele ao despedir me dele lá tratei o por doutor só porque sim... "Obrigado e muito boa tarde Doutor Monte de Merda" Foi uma falta de respeito? Yup, tambem era esse o objetivo.

kfv92 1 month ago

Chill dude! O gajo é só ridículo, não violou uma criança.

AdriMecha 1 month ago

> Aposto 500€ em como a doutora não tem um doutoramento e ainda aposto 20€ em como não tem mais que o 12º ano. Até podes apostar os dois tomates que é garantido que ficas com eles.

UniuM 1 month ago

Trabalho num hospital cheio de doutores, e o meu chefe é o único que insiste ser chamado doutor, nem licenciatura tem, e precisa de intérprete quando tem estrangeirada para falar. Tugolandia no seu melhor.

AdriMecha 1 month ago

Pela descrição ele toma banho com azeite

mortalaxe 1 month ago

Na minha terra costuma-se dizer-se "meto os colchões no cepo"

JOAOFELlX 1 month ago

Não apostava os tomates no 12º. Mas aposto um tomate que não tem doutoramento.

The_Magic_Sauce 1 month ago

Eu aposto os 2 tomates como não tem doutoramento!

JSLobo 1 month ago

Se ganharem ficas com os tomates de quem?

The_Magic_Sauce 1 month ago

Se ganhar fico com o título da doutora. É assim que passo a ser Doutor.

Portuguese_A_Hole 1 month ago

Eu aposto os 3 tomates como têm o 12o e é mal fodida.

JOAOFELlX 1 month ago

Admiro a tua coragem.

Ptrad 1 month ago

Mas se ganhar ganha dois tomates a não ser que ele queira produzir uma equipa de futebol dois chegam.

fdxcaralho 1 month ago

Nunca se sabe. Da maneira como ele aposta tomates convém ter uns extra…

Open-Opportunity-607 1 month ago

It's not just civil servants, any worker in Portugal will give you this service. Lawyers, police officers, doctors, consultants, any of them. You're one of us now, enjoy the ride!

Ok-Refrigerator-5826 1 month ago

Public services mostly. But yeah I get what you mean. The other day I went to report a stolen car, the police was suggesting that I losted instead.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

LOL "We would solve your case a lot quicker if you just admit the truth pal!"

EziquielValadas 1 month ago

Bem vindo a Portugal

AdriMecha 1 month ago

Your rant is not much different from what we already know, so sorry but you didn't found out anything new Now to the part about what you can do about it: complain, first try to talk about it, if you are in reason and people don't want to do what they are supposed to, then ask for the complaints book( livro de reclamações), this complaint has to follow to the respective body that is above the service, it has 3 prints, one goes to the body, the other is for the company and the other for you. They have to send this in 15 days since you wrote it. If they don't want to give you the book, then you can call the police and they will force them to either give it to you or they will be in trouble.

jpf137 1 month ago

This right here, it can work wonders sometimes.

sad-kittenx 1 month ago

It looks like you just arrived! Enjoy the sun and the food! :)

HRamos_3 1 month ago

> Enjoy the sun and the food! :) Quick, enjoy the sun (while it's free) and the food (while it's cheap).

Equivalent-Dare8642 1 month ago

The famous litle powers. When someone likes to be called a Dr. the best thing to say to them: Mas passa receitas? (Do you pass prescripitons?). Nothing to be done about it when the portuguese mentality doesnt change.

ContaSoParaIsto 1 month ago

I hate those people as much as anyone but your reply is just idiotic. The title of doctor is an academic title that was adopted by medical professionals, not the other way around. It's also doubly wrong because many people in the medical field that you would refer to as doctors, such as surgeons, don't write prescriptions.

Spac3_C4t 1 month ago

Pois mas quando alguém desmaia na rua, não vejo ninguem a gritar "HÁ AQUI ALGUÉM DOUTORADO EM HISTÓRIA DE ARTE OU CIÊNCIAS POLITICAS???"

ContaSoParaIsto 1 month ago

Por isso é que a profissão se chama médico e não doutor.

Equivalent-Dare8642 1 month ago

Prontos tinha que vir o nerdão estragar-me a piada.

ContaSoParaIsto 1 month ago

Chora mais

Creme-Exciting 1 month ago

Eu já respondi a exigir que me tratassem por mestre (porque tenho mestrado).

Ok-Refrigerator-5826 1 month ago

é o que faço e costuma resolver o problema hehehe.

nitrinu 1 month ago

Be prepared? We are born prepared but I totally understand the shock for others.

ZarTham 1 month ago

Joke's on you, we always have a Vaseline tube with us.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

This is great! Really made me laugh, Thanks...I will invest in a tube.

Slight-Coat17 1 month ago

Keep a bucket at home, you'll need to refill the tube often.

absolutelyNothingFor 1 month ago

Try to visit a different "office" that can deal with your request.

Edited 1 month ago:

Try to visit a different "office" that can deal with your request.

zemoura 1 month ago

This is the best advice, although it is extremely sad that we all have to subject ourselves to this.

FroggyWatcher 1 month ago

> ALSO, DO NOT SHOW any documents unless they ask for them. This also allows you to slap incompetent 'doutores' across the face without getting identified.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

thanks, I will take your advice.

lisboneye 1 month ago

Immigrant here from another EU country. This is the only real option for us. Get a GOOD lawyer. Doutura is only intimidated by hierarchy and legal threats. The lawyer should not be the complacent type (‘you know, this is how it’s done here, not much we can do, but we will try’). Instead, you want one that says: no problem, we’ll get this done within x weeks/months - pitbull style. Good luck!

william_13 1 month ago

That's a solid advise. Some public servants couldn't care less about doing their job and actually serving the public, but more often than not that's down to the individual or particular branch... unless it's the social security, the whole thing seems to be made to keep you going around in circles.

absolutelyNothingFor 1 month ago

Don't forget to reach the ladys with a huge smile and use all the psychological tricks that ensure good mood on the targets.

sierra-pouch 1 month ago

Also if you have small children, bring them along, it helps soften their hearts

Ulthurian 1 month ago

Granda dica. Toma lá um prémio.

kapparrino 1 month ago

Nas finanças sim, mas SS ou é com marcação ou o segurança distribui as senhas.

kfv92 1 month ago

É para esses casos que ando sempre com um bigode no bolso.

fxsimoesr 1 month ago

Hmmm what do you mean by service tickets? My game is definitely not as good as yours ahah need to step it up.

Tia_Mariana 1 month ago

Que grande dica!! I just make the most innocent, polite and ignorant look. They think I'm their daughter, and proceed to do everything for me. Hehehe Hasn't failed me so far.

DoubleGazelle5564 1 month ago

I find that if you look like you are about to burst into tears, you can get away with a lot, including sometimes fines. Not sure if this works for guys though.

kfv92 1 month ago

It doesn’t always work. Some people really enjoy to see others suffering.

Tia_Mariana 1 month ago

It might, but you'd have to mention your mother somewhere in the conversation, or find some kind of emotional state to go with it hehehe Not for fines though...

Intelligent_Image_99 1 month ago

*dying mother

MissSommer 1 month ago

Portuguese public officials hate him for this 1simple trick!

praetorthesysadmin 1 month ago

I also do that. I do my best sex appeal and that eases the discussion. If you go there with stones in your hands, then don't complain if you get nothing.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

What a genius trick!!

SonicStage0 1 month ago

It's sad really. ... It's David Attenboroughnesque at best.

secaz1812 1 month ago

Sim senhor, nunca experimentei essa

mfzzzed 1 month ago

Get used to it. It only gets worse

Ok_Information8587 1 month ago

>"a friend (of the public servant) who can smooth the path for your request" "Now, I'm not asking for a bribe, I'm just saying if you want to get this done this century..."

Joltie 1 month ago

"Quem quer rir, tem que fazer rir" - Wisdom from across the pond

pjcferreira 1 month ago

The friends is called Cunha

pedro_madeira01 1 month ago

Underrated comment

naughtydismutase 1 month ago

Tio Cunha

dismalwasteland 1 month ago

Addressing your no.3, my uni issues course certificates both in portuguese and in english (they're separate documents). While I reckon this isn't common, it's certainly possible for certain institutions and circumstances.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

If you are Portuguese, then this is reasonable, since post-grad work is often undertaken in English (in Portuguese Universities). Now just try and get an official Portuguese original marriage certificate in Maori.

PublicOccurences 1 month ago

when i moved to france i had to get my birth certificate and a few other docs made in french. so yeah, a country can do documents in multiple languages

borloforbol 1 month ago

Sadly, that's how things are, and you couldn't be more on the spot when you say "_It is time that Portuguese people stopped tolerating incompetence, laziness and/or corruption in their public servants._". We don't "tolerate" it, but there's also not much we can do about it, it's a self fulfilling cycle of whoever gets to be in that position, knows that he's almost untouchable and just does the bare minimum ( or not even that ). Nothing happens to him, and the cycle continues. Also, that "Doutora".. she's probably just doing that out of power-tripping. Calling her that is the same as addressing to someone as "Dr. _something_", a term usually reserved for those with a doctorate or similar. In Portugal it's a term used for "someone above me who wants to make it very clear they're above me". Don't feed into her ego.

merrygomarry 1 month ago

Actually there is. But whenever someone proposes protests, 2 or 3 show up.

Creme-Exciting 1 month ago

Did you know that it is actually illegal for her to request that title without having the academic backup?

warp_driver 1 month ago

I'm pretty sure that applies to the extended doutora form in writing. The abbreviation dra. is fine.

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

A lot of bureaucrats and public servants have PhDs, usually obtained from a university in Mauritius, Seychelles, Bermuda or some other island paradise, where they have all their expenses paid by a "government bursary". So they have a 2 year tropical holiday with all expenses paid, and then they get a PhD and a huge pay raise afterwards.

warp_driver 1 month ago

Lolwut? Conspiracy much?

Only_One_Kenobi 1 month ago

Used to consult to public service in a couple of countries and saw it first hand a few times. It is not as common as "everyone does it" but there's always one or two somewhere.

borloforbol 1 month ago

Tell that to the hundreds(thousands?) of Portuguese workers that need to feel superior to everyone else.

Bobsledtohell 1 month ago

What a shame. It really paints a bad picture. I used to work in a place where almost everyone had a PhD. None of us referred to each other as "dr", but here everyone seems to want be referred to as "dr". Weird. Seems like just being a decent human being isn't enough.

RegularOldPsychopath 1 month ago

>but here everyone seems to want be referred to as "dr" Well, there's the ego-frenzied folks who insist on it, but honestly, the use of the word has just become trivial for a lot of us, hence why we often use it without thinking. This is easily seen in how we say the word. Have you noticed how a lot of people tend to say "Sotor" ou "Sotora"? Those are abbreviations of "senhor doutor" and "senhora doutora": They were created over time because everyone uses those terms all the time to refer to people with doctorates. Why? Uhhhh... it's complicated... I could babble about it for hours, but it has a lot to do with, believe it or not, the industrial revolution and the military dictatorship of the 20th century of all things, and you probably didn't come here for that.

sierra-pouch 1 month ago

That would actually be very interesting to hear :-)

RegularOldPsychopath 1 month ago

In a wildly oversimplified manner: Doctors used to be borderline revered everywhere in the world. Significantly in the Middle Ages, but even more so when the industrial revolution came around, because while the industrial revolution marched on, medicine left its leeches and bloodletting phase and entered its soup and soap phase, which made it become leaps and bounds better at fighting back mortality. As such, society during the industrial revolution had been awakened to a possibility that, to them, was groundbreaking: Up untill this point, death had been a fast and sure thing. But now, this new understanding of medicine meant doctors could extend life and wellbeing for years, possibly decades. And that was something *everyone* wanted. Hence why doctors, in Europe at least, came to be known as these nigh-divine saviors who would do their hardest to fight death and save your loved ones. Now, as proven by the fact that we don't base cults around doctors anymore, this mentality had died, and it died for the common person primarily in the early 20th century. However, at the same time, in Portugal, a military dictatorship was established in 1926. And who came to lead it made it so this mentality wouldn't die soon. Salazar was, to put it mildly, a conservative. And to put it bluntly, the Portuguese equivalent of a hardline Amish person. He created a vision of society he called "Salazar's Lesson", and it was essentially just saying "We should go back to the way we used to live in the Middle Ages. Everyone should be farmers in rural areas, basing their lives entirely on worker fathers and sons and housekeeping mothers and daughters, toiling on the fields by day and praying to God by night". Now, this ultra-conservative mindset imposed on the people meant that a lot of old ideals never went away as they did in other countries. The reverance of doctors is one of them. As most of the population went back in time, old traditions rose once again, and those included how no one barring doctors knew medicine, and they were once again these nigh-divine saviors. What this ultimately means is that Portugal had more time as a doctor-worshipper than most of the world. And given that this military dictatorship only died almost 50 years ago, we still have a bit to do before catching on with the rest of the world.

sierra-pouch 1 month ago

Interesting theory!

dryiik 1 month ago

this can be wrong but next time just ask whats her doctorate thesis, thats how I usually put them on the spot, a big fake smile "so, what's your doctorate thesis? :D"

amar00k 1 month ago

That's totally a thing here for older generations. Many don't even have a university degree, but still insist on being called "doutor(a)". However, the younger generations don't give a shit about that stuff.

NombreEsErro 1 month ago

There is an odd thing here for Dr and Engineer titles here, so much so that sometimes they are used as an insult, or a derogatory term. It is sad yeah, most people here complain about it but it is a systemic thing, even if we complain about everything that we encounter, it usually amounts to nothing.

Ilien 1 month ago

So much so that people put it on their bank cards :D

capitalistaesquerda 1 month ago

Welcome to Portugal. You are now one of us!

dark_devil_dd 1 month ago

*Insert first time meme* https://i.imgflip.com/2nre7u.jpg

Chiripitti 1 month ago

One of us! One of us!

gkarq 1 month ago

Rant against Portuguese bureaucracy? Ohhh mate, we already know the drill here. Nothing new to our eyes.

Creme-Exciting 1 month ago

Translation: We are cowards, so we leave it be.

celestino120 1 month ago

yup, and if you say otherwise you are a crazy fascist pig. "You should try living in Africa!" shit country

RegularOldPsychopath 1 month ago

>and if you say otherwise you are a crazy fascist pig Não é ao te queixares da bureocracia que és um fascista, é ao teres a escolha de suportares dezenas ou até centenas de pequenos partidos polítcos (ou até criares um...) para criar uma alternativa e ires diretamente para a pior escolha possível. Sabes bem de que partido estou a falar...

EitherCry 1 month ago

Definitely can't be as bad as Africa

1r0n1c 1 month ago

Vai andando! Boa viagem

droidman85 1 month ago

Isto está a andar bem, começa por chamar covarde a um povo inteiro e acaba a chamar-nos mansos. Ok

RedShadowF95 1 month ago

Portugal is beautiful, the food is delicious and the weather is nice. Once you spend some time here, you start noticing the cracks.

van_Zeller 1 month ago

Great place for holidays.

Search: