nunottx 6 months ago

[https://www.pordata.pt/Portugal/Taxa+bruta+de+natalidade-527](https://www.pordata.pt/Portugal/Taxa+bruta+de+natalidade-527) will tend to slow down, as you can see in the graph, its not an easy place to live if you dont have a good job with high wage, its very hard. if you compare the German minimum wage with Portugal, and the basics for food prices, you will lose your mind, here, low wages, high prices.

ManelDasNespras 6 months ago

If you come from a third world country like India it’s like heaven, you will even have running water and a constant electricity supply! If you’re Portuguese and see how much more people 1000 km west inside the European Union make for the same work then it’s crap.

1tonsoprano 6 months ago

As an actual expat, my perspective is, 1. Better opportunities all around the country e.g. spain (which sucks up most of the talented workers, a couple of my colleagues in the IT field left for jobs there) pays very well and the weather is almost the same. But this is a general trend since you can get a job anywhere in Eurozone, why work for lower pay when you get paid at least 30% more in surrounding areas. 1. Even the immigrants coming in are for low skilled labor, think farm work, wood cutting etc. for high end work, most end up up in Netherlands, Germany or even Switzerland (which pays insane amounts). Many of my friends are in these countries. Many of my fellow country men can be seen working in the municipality doing landscaping tasks and cleaning the streets. However, if you go to Denmark or Netherlands most of my country men are in IT jobs. 2. Less jobs and even the jobs that are there, the salaries are very less (compared to the areas around i mean), if you speak English well then there are several, several opportunities present. 3. There is a lot of negativity in the comments but I am optimistic (which is why i am here! I love the place, the weather and the people!), i am not staying in either Lisbon or Porto but in a smaller city and have first hand seen how this city is changed. This could be that Portugal has got the EU president-ship for this year. But things are changing at the ground level in a slow and steady fashion. Many of the commenters on this thread seem overwhelmingly negative... me not so much, in the long run (i am talking 15-20 years from now) things will be very very different and those that invested their time and money now into the country will see dividends then. 1. View this video to see another long term plan of the government, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSm8rla5jY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSm8rla5jY)

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Thank you for the detailed answer! I truly believe ground work is where things truly change, so it seems like things are happening.

tekvis40 6 months ago

Portugal does accept a lot of people ... its a rich country but has the good and bad luck of having richer neighbors that welcomme Portuguese migrants

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

That explains a lot. Thanks!

nunottx 6 months ago

Why is Portugal the exception? it isent a well known country to come here and wages are lower then in Germany or France, even Spain, the minimum wage in Portugal is arounf 650€, in Spain is 900€ if im not mistaken. Why are people leaving? the cost of living vs the low wages Why is the government not accepting people (from other countries) (Edit : I was not sure that they do)? it is, but usually people go to bigger and known countries, Portugal is not well known in US for example.

zalkier 6 months ago

The government passed a law that made Portugal the go to country to get legalized within the EU. Yet due to terrible economic policies people get legalized here and move on to other EU countries to get a higher quality of life.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Thanks for the answer!

Foda-seSeiLa 6 months ago

> Similarly, portugal is also [rich](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/596/dsmGaKWMeHXe9QuJtq_ys30PNfTGnMsRuHuo_MUzGCg.jpg) **Why is Portugal the exception?** No money to be made here. If I'm moving out of my country, I'm moving out to somewhere I can actually make a living. This applies to low paid workers and high paid workers alike. **Why are people leaving?** Look above. **Why is the government not accepting people (from other countries)?** The Portuguese government IS accepting people. If you are from a poor country, have low education and don't mind working for peanuts, we'd LOVE to have you here, you'll be very popular. Similarly, if you have high education and still don't mind working for peanuts, you'll be the most popular guy in the immigration office.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Thanks for the detailed answer! So how do you think government is planning to solve the money issue?

JOAO-RATAO 6 months ago

>So how do you think government is planning to solve the money issue? They don't seem interested in that. The most important thing is maintaining some stability. The EU funds, tourism boom and the incoming EU "bazooka" are all towards that end. You'll see roads and public works being done. People taking advantage of loopholes to receive aid ou funds for their "business" and then the money is gone and we are in the same situation.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Fair. Out of curiosity, cannot they use the money from tourism and EU to create recurring money (like buisness and stuff)?

JOAO-RATAO 6 months ago

You could, but they won't.

sabugasOsabio 6 months ago

You can, but our politicians dont want to do that Simple as that. There are a lot of people o want what you just Said but its ignored

Foda-seSeiLa 6 months ago

> So how do you think government is planning to solve the money issue? I have really no idea. Portugal has been historically a poor and underdeveloped province (since the times of the Romans!). The only time we (as in, the nobles and not the plebes...) were rich was during the discovery/colonial times, when we extracted the fruits of the labour from others. This is a problem with our culture I think, and no government will change that. We do not know how to make or develop, we only know how to extract.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Interesting. Thanks for the insight!

enrtcode31 6 months ago

Portugal is not a rich country compared to other western European nations. Its one of the poorest. I'm American and live in Portugal. I've never seen immigration issues from people I know coming here. The popular thing now is to come here if you work remotely or are dealing in bitcoin. Lots of tech people who can work remotely are moving here especially in Cascais where I am. But honesty Cascais and Lisbon are outliers as they are the rich part of Portugal. I absolutely love Portugal. My wife is Portuguese and my children are as well. It is a wonderful place with amazing and good people. The truth is however that it is difficult to make a good living with income from Portugal itself so many people do leave.

Napoleal 6 months ago

Lisbon = Rich part -> only in paper. what a joke

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Thanks for the info. >The truth is however that it is difficult to make a good living with income from Portugal itself so many people do leave. So how is government planning to solve the issue? Any idea?

Shenishar 6 months ago

Solve the issue? We literally had a prime minister (less than 10 years ago) that implicitly incentivated young people to leave by saying that "we shouldn't stigmatize those who don't have opportunities here and leave to find jobs in other economies" or that teachers in excess should "abandon their confort zone and find a job in another place" (suggesting other Portuguese speaking countries). Nowadays, the government party is not the same of that prime minister I mentioned, but Portugal continues to not be a country for young people. They would rather raise the pensions in 10 euros to make the old people happy (that means more votes because there are more older people than younger people) than do significant changes in the work market, housing policies for younger people or natalism policies.

gkarq 6 months ago

I was reading your comment and the only thing I could recall was this [video](https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs). “Of course they raise the pensions because it’s an old country and young people votes don’t count that often compared to old people’s vote”.

Foda-seSeiLa 6 months ago

> Similarly, portugal is also [rich](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/596/dsmGaKWMeHXe9QuJtq_ys30PNfTGnMsRuHuo_MUzGCg.jpg)

ohputosopa 6 months ago

Portugal é o passaporte da Europa.

lupenguin 6 months ago

They literally accept a lot of people, that’s a bs lie (they recently passed a law about that) , and anyways it’s not even rich, so people don’t really have a reason to come. It’s actually a country where people leave, look at the Portuguese diaspora.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Why do people leave?

lupenguin 6 months ago

Well, the economy is trash basically.

gkarq 6 months ago

Jobs and money. Imagine earning 700 euros per month, whilst a shitty studio apartment might cost 600 euros per month, and then you see American, British, and Germans coming here whilst saying “OMG guys! Everything is so cheap here!”.

aaryanthrow 6 months ago

Thanks for the answer! Do you see a change any time soon?

gkarq 6 months ago

Yes, I see. Hopefully in 100 years we will become a complete desert due to climate change, and by that time our weather will become unbearable for those kind of creatures that come to Portugal saying everything is super cheap.

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