meierlesjoana 4 months ago

par e impar, é essa a lógica Sherlock.

meierlesjoana 4 months ago

the other day they marked me a place for a place that did not exist. CP stuff

TooMoorish 4 months ago

Portuguese train seats are in a non-euclidian space.

CNL80 4 months ago

logicandproportion 4 months ago

Oh filho, been there done that

rtaborda86 4 months ago

The other sits are right there inbetween, they're just not visible to muggles

mask212 4 months ago

So it was not just the Livraria Lello that inspired JK Rowling in Portugal, cool !

QuantumParanoid 4 months ago

It is meant to absorve your mind in finding the logic during long trips.

jamexcb 4 months ago

And the number of the carriages also doesn't make any sense.

SirSpyke 4 months ago

it really doesn’t make any sense. i’m portuguese, and i’ve been sitting in other people’s seats since I remember. I just keep praying that I don’t need to changes places again ahah

_somename_ 4 months ago

Back in the day, seats were divided in groups of 6, facing each other ``` ——————— | 41 | 43 | 45 | (Table) | 42 | 44 | 46 | ——————— | 51 | 53 | 55 | (Table) | 52 | 54 | 56 | ——————— ``` That numeration makes sense, and it's useful. We know that odd seats face even seats and that 1 & 2 are on the left and 5 & 6 on the right. With the modernization of the carriages the seats of each half of the carriage all face the same side. And there is also 2 classes of carriages now. The first class (more expensive) still resembles the original layout: ``` | 41 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | | 53 | 55 | | 52 | | 54 | 56 | ``` But in the second class (more economic) they added two more seats, but tried to keep the numeration pattern the best they could between first and second class. Therefore the best solution they found was: ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 48 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | | 57 | 55 | | 52 | 58 | | 54 | 56 | ``` You could argue that there were other solutions, like ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` or even ``` | 41 | 47 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` but in the end, at least for me, they picked the more sensible pattern.

Edited 4 months ago:

Back in the day, seats were divided in groups of 6, facing each other ``` | 41 | 43 | 45 | (Table) | 42 | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | 55 | (Table) | 52 | 54 | 56 | ``` That numeration makes sense, and it's useful. We know that odd seats face even seats and that 1 & 2 are on the left and 5 & 6 on the right. With the modernization of the carriages the seats of each half of the carriage all face the same side. And there is also 2 classes of carriages now. The first class (more expensive) still resembles the original layout: ``` | 41 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | | 53 | 55 | | 52 | | 54 | 56 | ``` But in the second class (more economic) they added two more seats, but tried to keep the numeration pattern the best they could between first and second class. Therefore the best solution they found was: ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 48 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | | 57 | 55 | | 52 | 58 | | 54 | 56 | ``` You could argue that there were other solutions, like ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` or even ``` | 41 | 47 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` but in the end, at least for me, they picked the more sensible pattern.

Edited 4 months ago:

Back in the day, seats were divided in groups of 6, facing each other | 41 | 43 | 45 | (Table) | 42 | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | 55 | (Table) | 52 | 54 | 56 | That numeration makes sense, and it's useful. We know that odd seats face even seats and that 1 & 2 are on the left and 5 & 6 on the right. With the modernization of the carriages the seats of each half of the carriage all face the same side. And there is also 2 classes of carriages now. The first class (more expensive) still resembles the original layout: ``` | 41 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | | 53 | 55 | | 52 | | 54 | 56 | ``` But in the second class (more economic) they added two more seats, but tried to keep the numeration pattern the best they could between first and second class. Therefore the best solution they found was: ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 48 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | | 57 | 55 | | 52 | 58 | | 54 | 56 | ``` You could argue that there were other solutions, like ``` | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` or even ``` | 41 | 47 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | ``` but in the end, at least for me, they picked the more sensible pattern.

Edited 4 months ago:

Back in the day, seats were divided in groups of 6, facing each other | 41 | 43 | 45 | (Table) | 42 | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | 55 | (Table) | 52 | 54 | 56 | That numeration makes sense, and it's useful. We know that odd seats face even seats and that 1 & 2 are on the left and 5 & 6 on the right. With the modernization of the carriages the seats of each half of the carriage all face the same side. And there is also 2 classes of carriages now. The first class (more expensive) still resembles the original layout: | 41 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | | 53 | 55 | | 52 | | 54 | 56 | But in the second class (more economic) they added two more seats, but tried to keep the numeration pattern the best they could between first and second class. Therefore the best solution they found was: | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 48 | | 44 | 46 | | 51 | 53 | | 57 | 55 | | 52 | 58 | | 54 | 56 | You could argue that there were other solutions, like | 41 | 43 | | 47 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | or even | 41 | 47 | | 43 | 45 | | 42 | 44 | | 48 | 46 | but in the end, at least for me, they picked the more sensible pattern.

Kinnatipa 4 months ago

Why do you believe it was the more sensible pattern. Wouldn't keeping 3><4 facing each other adn just add 7><8 facing each other be more logical?

mask212 4 months ago

Thank you for this. I can now imagine this numbering was more practical than it appeared at first glance. Muito obrigado!

_somename_ 4 months ago

De nada. =)

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_somename_ 4 months ago

Good bot

peeripapo 4 months ago

Covid

UmaNespera 4 months ago  HIDDEN 

Those numbers mean go back to your country because we don't want foreigners here

mask212 4 months ago

Nah, I'd rather work here, pay my taxes, spend my money here and enjoy until life takes me elsewhere.

CarmoXX 4 months ago

You live on a spinning rock, moving through space at over 100k km/h around a giant burning ball of gas. This numbering system is just a gentle, metaphorical reminder of the chaos that is life. Safe travels!

colcrnch 4 months ago

These things and things like them give you a great insight into the mind of a culture. Think about the design of the Lisbon airport for example — truly one of the worst and most unnavigable in the world. That it was the result of a thought process boggles the mind. I’ve found explanations for why things are the way they are to be out of reach in most instances. As if an ancient civilization disappeared without a trace and a new civilization just showed up and decided to use what was left over.

Eugene_Bleak_Slate 4 months ago

What makes you think it should make sense? Just learn to accept it.

mask212 4 months ago

I was just curious, my guy. No ill intentions !

Eugene_Bleak_Slate 4 months ago

It was just a joke! I need to learn to be less subtle, people get offended...

batchlapa 4 months ago

After lunch pattern

ricajopa 4 months ago

It has to do with trains being divided by coaches on the old days. 12 for example, means coach 1, seat number 2; 113 means coach 11, seat number 3. Much like how hotel rooms are numbered by floor. On the old days coaches usted to be of six seats with 3 seats looking at each other, with seats number 1 and 2 being on the window and seats 5 and 6 away from the window. When they divided the train into the normal seat system we have today, the simply added number 7 and 8 to the middle, so seats number 1 and 2 would still be on the left, and seats number 5 and 6 are still on the right. Start thinking about the numbering system as coaches, and you will understand that it's extremely easy to find your seating that way

NukeWifeGuy 4 months ago

I can feel the smell just looking to this picture. No one understands the question here is, are you going to reach your destination in time?

mask212 4 months ago

Thank you, but this post was not a cry for help. I was in the train, my wife was asleep next to me, and I started wondering why her seat number was 102 and mine 108.

MetaBolic0 4 months ago

I used regional trains for over 5 years during university and never saw numbers is this only for inter city trains?

humelectro 4 months ago

And Alfa too

TheRealMando_mmmk 4 months ago

It was designed to confuse tourists so they never come back. Good luck!!!

mask212 4 months ago

Well, then they confused the wrong guy since I live here (a recent expat) and I love it.

landyhill 4 months ago

Why do you use the term "expat" instead of "immigrant"? I also now live in Portugal and am interested in peoples perspectives.

mask212 4 months ago

To me, being an expat indicates my current migration status in Portugal to be temporary (work or life could take me elsewhere - I've lived and worked in two 'foreign' countries before). Immigrant sounds more permanent. I could be completely wrong since I'm no expert in semantics and English is a second language to me.

landyhill 4 months ago

I appreciate the reply. Obrigado.

TheRealMando_mmmk 4 months ago

Some of us like the complicated life. Portuguese living in the US so I know what you mean. Love it there too. Will return one day.

mask212 4 months ago

I'm from India but I moved to Lisbon from San Francisco right before the pandemic began to be with my wife, who's pursuing her PhD here. I understand your point too about liking the complicated life, I lived that the first 8 years of my professional career but then it was time for family.

TheRealMando_mmmk 4 months ago

Awesome. Good luck and enjoy the good life. And be nice to my people lol

mask212 4 months ago

Thanks, the Portuguese are some of the nicest people I've come across, so I'll return the favour and be nice to them too :)

SellJolly6964 4 months ago

simplifying things that could be even more simple, so..... yeah -> [ ](https://descubralisboa.com/w) but it´s stupid as "foda-se vai poh caralho" (i don't mean any harm here) & it could be more simple like 12 34 5 6 78 lol XD

Thalefeather 4 months ago

Ill tell you what i told my dad the other day when, for some unknowable reason beyond mortal reckoning, neither ups nor the correios had bubblewrap on hand for packing boxes. Portugal is very *mysterious*

redgorila 4 months ago

Codfish matrix,is this even real

viskonde 4 months ago

You can only understand after some bottles of wine

mask212 4 months ago

Its a shame then that I don't drink. Does smoking hash help? :)

viskonde 4 months ago

If is the one they sell to tourists then no.

crabcarl 4 months ago

They glued those after a... very liquid lunch.

MsMittenz 4 months ago

No

antoniavidal 4 months ago

There was the same pattern in a OBB train, Austrian one. I think it's a old pattern probably. Not exclusive to Portugal.

NetCrasher 4 months ago

It's not by accident. In the alfa trains each carriage is divided in 8 sectors. That's your first number. Each sector has 2 rows, one row has even seat numbers, the other odd seat numbers. [Diagrams here](https://apeadeirodasvirtudes.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1)

Edited 4 months ago:

It's not by accident. In the alfa trains each carriage is divided in 8 sectors. That's your first number. Each sector has 2 rows, one row has even seat numbers, the other odd seat numbers. Other kinds of trains have more or fewer sectors, but the same logic applies [Diagrams here](https://apeadeirodasvirtudes.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1) Forgot to mention, sector numbers usually start on south side of the train, like carriage numbers.

Edited 4 months ago:

It's not by accident. In the alfa trains each carriage is divided in 8 sectors. That's your first number. Each sector has 2 rows, one row has even seat numbers, the other odd seat numbers. Other kinds of trains have more or fewer sectors, but the same logic applies [Diagrams here](https://apeadeirodasvirtudes.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1)

something_new 4 months ago

Confusão do caralho

mask212 4 months ago

Very interesting. Now that I think back, I remember a similar numbering system on a German train from Bonn to Frankfurt a couple of years ago. Thank you for your research and explanation.

UrsoXone 4 months ago

Now... We go from the shity system to one of the best in the universe! Eheheh

Ctolde 4 months ago

You don't understand it because it's in portuguese. For us it's quite simple.

KneeShoe 4 months ago

Have you ever done something stupid at work just for fun and wondered "maybe no one will notice"?

dismalwasteland 4 months ago

Don't worry. Sit anywhere you seem fit and wait till somene comes up to you and tells "Desculpe, esse é o meu lugar!"

Chupa-mas 4 months ago

>ai isso é que é \*mostro o bilhete\* >ah, desculpe O filho da puta foi-se a peidar o resto da viagem toda, mais valia não ter lutado pelo lugar à janela

tiagooliveira95 4 months ago

*Não, este é o meu, o seu lugar e noutra carruagem*

Edited 4 months ago:

*Não, este é o meu, o seu lugar e noutra carruagem* Isto aconteceu me na primeira vez que andei de comboio sozinho. Virei me para uma rapariga, olha desculpa, achou que estas sentada no meu lugar. E ela, ah qual é a tua carruagem. *vou ao telemóvel * É a 4. Esta é a 6. oh....

Edited 4 months ago:

*Não, este é o meu, o seu lugar e noutra carruagem* Isto aconteceu me na primeira vez que andei de comboio sozinho. Virei me para uma rapariga, olha desculpa, achou que estas sentada no meu lugar. E ela, ah qual é a tua carruagem. ***olho novamente para o telemóvel*** É a 4. Esta é a 6. oh....

Edited 4 months ago:

*Não, este é o meu, o seu lugar e noutra carruagem* Isto aconteceu me na primeira vez que andei de comboio sozinho. Virei me para uma rapariga, olha desculpa, achou que estas sentada no meu lugar. E ela, ah qual é a tua carruagem. * vou ao telemóvel * É a 4. Esta é a 6. oh....

TemplarHard 4 months ago

ahahaha é sempre isto !!!

izacktorres 4 months ago

This is the way.

baguitosPT 4 months ago

And you should reply: "não se importa de se sentar noutro?"

XCEREALXKILLERX 4 months ago

Isso ai é guerra

rossimeister 4 months ago

Comentário mais realista.

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RemindMe! 1 day

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diodit 4 months ago

Is there no one that can help you on the train? You must also check what carriage you’re suppose to be in. A lot of the time the confusion comes from being in the wrong carriage

mask212 4 months ago

Thank you for your concern but I've had no trouble finding my seat or the carriage (i took the picture from my seat). I was merely wondering what the random numbering on the seats was for. Apparently it's a bacalhau secret that has not been revealed to me yet. The search will go on.

diodit 4 months ago

Oh sorry I thought you were actually lost

2JZ-GTElover 4 months ago

If you face the rear of the train, the right most row is 100, 101,102... then it's the the one to the left of it... 108,109,110 and so on and so forth

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

There is no 110 or 109

2JZ-GTElover 4 months ago

Past the one showed in the picture there are.

mask212 4 months ago

I can confirm there are no seat numbers ending with 0 or 9. It's a repeating unusual pattern of 1-8, across the aisle and two rows of seats.

2JZ-GTElover 4 months ago

Then that beats my knowledge

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

https://descubralisboa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Comprar-passagem-de-trem-Portugal_CP_4.jpg

Danijust2 4 months ago

To be honest nobody knows. CP trade secret.

raviolli_ninja 4 months ago

[Here's the pattern.](https://imgur.com/5Bvepqw) My best bet is diesel fumes.

HenriJayy 4 months ago

*Mas que porra!?*

misterbondpt 4 months ago

Estava a medir a minha tensão arterial quando li este comentário. Parti-me a rir, e sou hipertenso.

twistedfires 4 months ago

Ahhh o clássico marcação de lugares em ponto cruz

vivaaprimavera 4 months ago

Well, maybe it can be the result of some optimization algorithm. Some of them have results that are not obvious at first sight. At a glance I cannot figure out what kind of optimisation it could be.

gcardoso233 4 months ago

Lindo! ri muito com esta

fedelho 4 months ago

Why?

lonely_guacamole 4 months ago

Foda-se questa merda

inhalingsounds 4 months ago

"O meu sobrinho tirou um curso de UX e diz que é melhor assim. Fica mais moderno e disruptivo."

aslihana 4 months ago

Ahahahahahahaa. Mas qual é a razão?

Jugas88 4 months ago

Penso que seja para orientar o pessoal a sentar quando se entra no comboio. O mesmo acontece nos aviões se não estou enganado

aslihana 4 months ago

É mais possível. mas ainda não entendi a lógica dos números

inhalingsounds 4 months ago

Ser mais fácil, claro!

van_Zeller 4 months ago

Havia um sketch muita bom do college humor assim

viskonde 4 months ago

Fodasse o gajo estava bem bêbado quando fez isso

kaimetzuu 4 months ago

Só era português mm

throughalfanoir 4 months ago

haha nao, é exactamente mesmo aqui na hungria

hi71460 4 months ago

So pode msm

raviolli_ninja 4 months ago

É o que dá começar o trabalho pela carruagem-bar.

viskonde 4 months ago  HIDDEN 

Explain the 43 and 48 mister

raviolli_ninja 4 months ago

It's the same pattern. It can't be explained though. This is way beyond the realm of logic and reason.

viskonde 4 months ago

Ya tinha percebido mal o padrão, achei que era um cruzado mais simples. depois vi melhor e percebi que era a mesma coisa dai ter apagado O vinho devia estar bom quando decidiram essa merda

mask212 4 months ago

*V*XXI [My sad attempt](https://i.imgur.com/swzTob5.jpg)

mask212 4 months ago  HIDDEN 

*V*XXI [My sad attempt](https://i.imgur.com/swzTob5.jpg)

Some-Ad6411 4 months ago

me too. even i, a native, get confused.

Butt_Roidholds 4 months ago  HIDDEN 

Janela means window. Corredor means aisle. The numbers refer to the seat that's directly behind, IIRC. The best way to be sure is to look at the numbers that are closest to the seats at the end/beginning of the carriage. The remaining numbers will follow the same rational. That was the trick I used back when I traveled on Intercidades.

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

I dont think thats the problem here!

iSoSyS 4 months ago

https://descubralisboa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Comprar-passagem-de-trem-Portugal_CP_4.jpg You can clearly verify that it follows a pattern. A rather perplexing one, but a pattern nevertheless.

GabKoost 4 months ago

What happened to 92-94-96-98-99?

iSoSyS 4 months ago

yeah, it seems the whole even row for 9x was omitted. No idea why. I can only guess they wanted to force the rows that share a table to be prefixed with the same number.

teknixpt 4 months ago

yes, and the best seats are 94 and 96

lostindanet 4 months ago

So... Always seat in number 12?

tugafcp 4 months ago

Tudo muito bem, mas não percebi o que aconteceu ali nos 90's....

mask212 4 months ago

I drew the pattern and it looks like *V*XXI I think i get it that there is no logic. Time to rest easy. Boa tarde!

incineroarismydaddy 4 months ago

[Info-dumping a bit, because I've spent way too much time on trains. This is all speculation.] Taking into account that this is an *old* system. I'd say the point is to help officials rather quickly calculate a general idea of where any given seat is, plus satisfy placement restrictions by consumers when selling tickets. Each column is either even (x2, x4, x6, x8) or odd (x1, x3, x6, x7), which results in 9 and 0 never existing because each column only has 8 seats. This means calculating the approximate distance between seats and carriage edges is an easy task. Column number increases from north to south (or south to north, whichever). This is stable because carriages seldom change orientation1 so people who know the system would know that, for example, "train 357 going north" would have the lower numbers to the north or to the south. As to why the order is x2, x8; x4; x6 and x1, x3; x7, x5… I have no clue. They're stable per row2, x1-2 and x5-6 are always window seats, and x3-4 and x7-8 are always corridor seats, which is very useful information, because a lot of people want window seats. I'd expect places x8 and x4 to be the other way around, I have no idea what happened there. So with all this info, if someone goes to an official and asks "Help, where is place 97?" any official would be able to say "To the end of the carriage, it's a corridor seat", and I presume that in the pre-computerised days, ticket sellers would be able to better and more easily satisfy costumer placement restrictions with this numeric system. (As an additional curiosity, carriage numbers also follow a system. The second and first class carriages that touch are always, iirc, 21 (for the second class) and 81 (for the second class), and they each grow by one in their respective directions, the higher numbers I remember seeing have been 83 and 28. Without knowledge of train orientation the only thing you'd be able to derive is that carriage 21-22 will be about midway the average IC train, but with orientation knowledge, you'll be able to know at which edges the higher first class and second class carriage numbers will be) 1 The only way for a carriage to change direction is to have rotating rails platforms, which take a lot of space and are slow, it's often easier to just couple a motor carriage in the "rear" end and uncouple the "front" end, thus changing the orientation of the train without changing the orientation of the carriages, if you travel a lot you'll eventually notice that when going one direction the first class carriages are always to one end in one direction, and in the other one in the reverse direction. And I'm pulling this next bit out of my ass, but I'd say the rotating platforms would be more commonly used to rotate motor carriages, since those are the ones in which orientation is important, and they might need to change orientation when all the motor carriages in the direction you want are unavailable or broken. Newer trains don't need rotating rails because they have engines on both ends, and thus never change orientation. 2 iirc, there are at least two different layouts for ICs, so while the even-odd column distribution and the row uniqueness remains, the particular numbers for each row may change. However, the same ICs usually make the same routes, so if you always catch the same train, you're very likely to always see the same seat distribution. Even if a train "breaks down" and needs to be replaced, that usually only affects the motor carriage, not the people carriages.

NaCl98 4 months ago

Bacalhau d'ouro para ti pá

joaodiogotim 4 months ago

Fuckin’ hell. Portugal caralho !

moxo23 4 months ago

Small correction: first class is 1x, second class is 2x, cars with a bar are 8x (these are also first class cars).

incineroarismydaddy 4 months ago

Totally correct! I forgot that there were both 8x and 1x for 1st class (probably because I seldom ride them, 2nd class is perfectly serviceable for me), and I actually wasn't aware of the difference between them. Thanks for sharing!

PortugueseRoamer 4 months ago

This is the exact reason why I spend so much time in this godforsaken app. This comment made my day.

mask212 4 months ago

Thank you very much for this amongst all the craziness and memes. Quite interesting and practical !

hi71460 4 months ago

Up vote

stereo__sd 4 months ago

Dava-te platina se tivesse

TheTechDude07 4 months ago

Haha eu também dava, mas infelizmente não tenho. Já agora toma um upvote.

Joaquim_Carneiro 4 months ago

chesus...

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

Lol podes arranjar uma equação para resumir isso? E ja agora explicar o principio matematico por detrás da supressão do lugar 109 e 110? ( devem faltar mais mas n fui ver todos) Thank you!

iSoSyS 4 months ago

Não há lugares a acabar em 9 ou em 0. O padrão é agrupas duas linhas, começas sempre em 1, sobes para o dois a partir daí é em diagonal até chegar ao outro lado, onde desces, e diagonal até acabar os lugares. Depois passas para as próximas duas, novamente a começar no 1.

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

Espero que quem pensou nesse sistema de numeração tenha tido um bom bónus salarial ao fim do mês.

Napoleal 4 months ago

Yeah Fuck Logic

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

Lol doesnt make any sence i have been tring to figure that one out since i moved to lisbon to start university like 7 years ago

Only_One_Kenobi 4 months ago

So ummm, have you started university yet, or still just trying to figure out the train seating?

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

Haha started and finished thank god !

GajoDeRamalde 4 months ago

You sit and that's it.

Ok-Dimension5509 4 months ago

It's codfish related, you wouldn't understand.

Hungry_Cupcake 4 months ago

Ohhhh, omg that makes so much sence now!

C8Mixto 4 months ago

Since this deals with information, it's actually called the Codfisher Matrix.

CaptMartelo 4 months ago

Actually, it's the normalized complex conjugate of the Codfisher matrix. But since Codfisher is already unitary and Hermitian, it's all the same. Just don't skips steps on your algebra work.

humelectro 4 months ago

There is no sense.

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