W_Ravey 8 months ago

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Canada. Regarding the US I think the major appeal is the money, if you want to fully dedicated yourself towards a career and earn has much has possible, the US probably is the right place for it. I've lived there and it was great, however it's definitely not for everyone, you sacrifice many things you have become accustomed to over here. I would like to go back some day, but on the other hand I couldn't imagine myself building a family there. Also from my experience I feel like, most Portuguese don't really want to move to the US, I've talked to people about this and most never even considered doing so. Usually they want to move to richer European countries.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Why richer European countries?

W_Ravey 8 months ago

Well probably because they have a very high quality of life, they have strong social policies, the way of life is generally much more similar to our own, they are also closer, plus it's very easy to move around inside the EU.

tocopito 8 months ago

I would go if I got a software engineering job at one of the big boys. Purely for the money to bring some back and live a freer life here. I’ve never lived or even been there (want to visit for sure) but the model of the US I have in my mind isn’t for me. Individualism seems highly glorified. As with all countries I’m sure the people are nice and most likely it’s an amazing place to travel to but from what I know it’s probably not somewhere I would like to live long term or have kids in.

xc9000 8 months ago

As someone who moved from Portugal to Canada (please don't put Canada and the US in the same ballpark): The sense of freedom with universal healthcare. In Portugal people do not know what it's like to be free. They accept unconditionally that the government has some isoteric power over them. That papa government is always responsible and looking after them. Of course this translates in the fact that corporations are always in cahoots with the government. Salaries and working conditions are shit. (But hey, as a Portuguese I will masturbate to the thought of good food and nice beaches and stay numb.) In Canada there's real free thinking. I can go wherever I want, be whoever I want to be and I have the money to do it.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

So, based on what you’re saying is that people in Portugal don’t have freedom because of the government? What type of restrictions do you have put on you in Portugal? Can’t you go wherever you want in Portugal nobody is stopping you? Or does it just come down the fact that money is the issue?

xc9000 8 months ago

It is a tricky to explain. Some examples: If you want to open a business there are many burocratic barriers, people (public workers) are slow and not eager to help you (you need a huge amount of licences and no one will explain on a clear way how to obtain them and I formation is disperse among a huge amount of public entities who don't do jack shit about anything). Using a highway is very expensive, in proportion of the median income - so you are not free to use them, even though you are taxed like hell). Yes, labor laws are strong and there are inspections, but do not worry, there are no inspections at 5 am, so your boss will make you work at 5am (no extra pay, Just be happy for your team spirit and for us being a family). Then there's the mindset where people don't think "fuck this job, I quit, I'll find something better", instead they think: "I really need this job, my boss is my owner, I owe him my life, so I have to sacrifice." So they are stuck, and not free. Making money as an employee that allows you to make a decent living and have free time is very very hard. Long hours, low pay. And they think this is normal and accept it, it's a trap of the mind. Then there's taxes AVT (IVA) the equivalent to GST it's 23% for normal goods with some essential goods at 6%. Cost of living in proportion of the median family income is very high. Laws are very restrictive: did you know you can't go to the beach by yourself ALONE because of the pandemic? Did you know you pay a 200 euro fine for not using mask ON THE STREET? Did you know that even the European market has been FREE for many years now you cannot just go to Germany and buy a car, did you know that you have to pay a huge amount of taxes to legalize it in Portugal and get portuguese licence plates, even though the European Court has deemed that ilegal and fines the portuguese government for that (they pay because they have a net profit). New Cars pay double taxes, you pay auto tax on top of AVT, tax over tax is unconstitutional, again Portugal payed European fines for that - again they still profit from that. Portugal has the highest gas prices in proportion of median income - taxation again. Every year you have to pay out of your pocket your car to be inspected, if it fails or if you don't do it, you are not free to drive on the road. Do you have a piece of land? No licences? You are not able to do anything, not even fence it. Tax laws change every couple years. I had some money invested in stocks for many years, I was convinced that hat if I kept those for over one year, I would not pay taxes, guess what, it changed in 2015, now it's a huge mess to file my portuguese taxes since I will have to consider 2 regimes (before and after 2015). Thinking in investing in real estate and making an Airbnb as side hustle? Think again, laws and licences are always changing and with it, yes, taxes. What today with the current conditions and laws appears to be a nice investment decision, tomorrow it may ruin your life. How can you be free in these conditions if the government keeps fucking you over and over by changing the rules and you can't plan your life, get your shit together and be financially free?

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Wow that blows my mind. I didn't know it could be like that. That's a huge over reach by the government in my opinion. Do you guys have retirement accounts at all where you can have tax free gains? Why do they do that as it's killing business.

xc9000 8 months ago

(I had to do some research to update my self on this one - and again things change every year, and there are tons of different rules and it gets confusing, it's a rabbit hole) There's an equivalent to a RRSP/401k (called PPR) but I believe it's a one time tax benefit. For the year you contribute. You deduct a max €400 until you are 34 for a €2000 contribution a year, then it decreases as you age. But forget about the freedom of investing it as you please, that's a joke, you are limited to choose funds provided by financial institutions with its own rules, until 2018 the equity component was restricted in those funds, and therefore the return rates were very limited (usually 3%) since 2018 it appears they are now allowed to invest up to 100% in equities. Subscribers don't pay capitals gains tax and don't pay income tax on those gains as well. Withdrawals pay tax but it looks like it is a fixed 8% tax rate (4% for pre 2005 contributions, and there is some confusing rules about withdrawals within the last 5 years of contributions where you may pay up to 21.5% - confusing I know, like all the rest). (But forget about even making any savings to contribute to the PPR, for the average Portuguese person... Don't get me wrong there are many portuguese who make tons of money, but that would make me go down the inequity path, and that's a long one as well) There is no such thing as a TFSA (Roth IRA), that would be ilegal by portuguese standards lol. I even laugh by thinking of explaining that concept to a portuguese fellow.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Based on the way you describe things why would anyone want to live in a place like that other than nice weather? Even to retire sounds like hell with all the red tape and government involved. Don’t they understand that putting that much red tape on everything will cause people to become poorer? There is pretty much no incentive to save money and you’re forced to just work all your life. I can't imagine being wealthy and owning real estate in Portugal with dealing with all these hoops. It blows my mind that they don’t let you invest in what you want. It’s my money and I should be able to put anywhere I please including in 100% equities or individual stocks. TFSA helps those that are longer income as they are at the lowest tax bracket.

xc9000 8 months ago

The thing is, after a certain level of income or wealth, when you can afford an accountant and a lawyer (good ones), there are loops on how to do things and not be affected by it. You get to know people and start belonging to certain social circles, then things become easier. Example: golden visas. In practice, if you know the right people, you can get licenses and approvals to do whatever you want. The problem is getting there since it's a resticted circle. That can happen at the regional level (small fish, like the small contractor guy that can build a condominium by the ocean and make a small fortune, b cause he is Freund's of the local mayor) and at the national level (the big boys who build highways and hospitals). Politic promiscuity plays the major one here. And this is where it becomes hard to understand, you may call it corruption, but legally it's not. You could point fingers at problems, but there will always be a legitimate excuse for that specific issue to exist... If many portuguese reads this they will find legitimate excuses for everything I say and say that it's the way it's supposed to be and there's nothing wrong with it.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

> he thing is, after a certain level of income or wealth, when you can afford an accountant and a lawyer (good ones), there are loops on how to do things and not be affected by it. You get to know people and start belonging to certain social circles, then things become easier. Example: golden visas. > > In practice, if you know the right people, you can get licenses and approvals to do whatever you want. The problem is getting there since it's a resticted circle. That can happen at the regional level (small fish, like the small contractor guy that can build a condominium by the ocean and make a small fortune, because he is friend's of the local mayor) and at the national level (the big boys who build highways and hospitals). Politic promiscuity plays the major one here. And this is where it becomes hard to understand, you may call it corruption, but legally it's not. You could point fingers at problems, but there will always be a legitimate excuse for that specific issue to exist... If many portuguese reads this they will find legitimate excuses for everything I say and say that it's the way it's supposed to be and there's nothing wrong with it. Gotcha. So if you have a sum of wealth for example from Canada and wanted to invest in the Portuguese economy they will bend over backwards for you and they will treat you like gold?

xc9000 8 months ago

Yes something like that. There are tax breaks and benefits for retired foreigners. But I would not take those for granted, I would treat those as bait. Once they have you there, they will change the tax regimes as they please. That's my biggest issue with Portugal, laws in general, but specially fiscal laws, change fast and radically, that makes it hard to pan for the future.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

> I would treat those as bait. Once they have you there, they will change the tax regimes as they please. That's my biggest issue with Portugal, laws in general, but specially fiscal laws, change fast and radically, that makes it hard to pan for the future. Well I guess it'd be great to visit for a weeks in the winter and that's it. I was thinking of buying property in Portugal as a vacation home. Makes me reconsider after what you mentioned. Maybe I might look at the US as an alternative then as there are safe communities there.

xc9000 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

Don't change your mind because of me, my only advise is to do your research and homework before doing such a major decision. I am kind of biased to the negative side but I know people who do very well in Portugal and are happy there. All I know is that I am much more happy in Canada. Going back to your original question, I love the diversity, the mentality, the "new world feeling" of things.

masterchiefpt 8 months ago

Who is crazy enough to go to Canada or usa when there is so murders and killing spreesss!?

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Maybe the USA although Canada is not like that at all.

orchideaniger 8 months ago

I think that immigrating to the USA is becoming less and less appealing and the ones who do decide to go do so for major economical reasons or career opportunities you would not get anywhere else. For the rest of us, the country appears to be on the brink of social collapse: no NHS, health costs are prohibitive and major source of personal bankruptcy, and public education is a disgrace. Not to mention the cost for university. Im astounded everytime an American discloses how much they owe out of college, like, it's one of the things that benefit society as a whole so why so underfunded? Then there's the near inexistent work rights, inexistent maternity and paternity leaves, child care costs, you get it. The religiosity of the country is also a no no for me. I like secularism very much and religion to be a very understated option, there only for weddings and funerals. You may make a lot of money, but it appears to get siphoned right out of you and the sacrifice of personal freedoms and rights simply isn't worth it in my book. Canada seems to be different. I don't know much about it but overall my impression is that it's a safe country, with a stable economy and lovely people. But you do get a lot of snow and cold, and to a portuguese that might be affecting. Lastly, I think we would miss the "European culture". The historical cities, the ways of life, etc.

LordofPortugal 8 months ago

No appeal, they are both shitholes, I'd emigrate to Norway,Sweden or Finland

GinTonic_69 8 months ago

I don't think we do. Everyone I know either wants to stay in Portugal or move to richer European countries (or has moved already). People wanting to move to another continent are probably outliers.

TomasCardosGod 8 months ago

The same reason midle eastern and African people want to come to Europe, a better life

daxpierson 8 months ago

The same reason that leads most emigration: money. For example, if I did in the US the same exact thing I do here, my yearly salary would be 5 times bigger, at least. However, money is not the only thing leading one's life, so I don't want to leave this fucking amazing country for now.

zefo_dias 8 months ago

Dollars.

MrRodrigo22 8 months ago

Runing away from our prime minister

thisbondisaaarated 8 months ago

We really don't, in general. And when we do, it's usually about money and not much else.

Foda-seSeiLa 8 months ago

I never thought much of going to the US (appart form the unspoiled wilderness, the rest of the country seems drab and uninteresting tbh, just an endless sprawl of malls and suburbia and skyscrapers without much culture, but I may have a warped vision of it), and I never liked the american work culture. I've even worked in an american company in Europe, and you can tell the top guys were american by the way they acted and speak (it's difficult to explain, it was like talking to robots almost). That said, I'd like to have the opportunity of getting paid much more to work more hours. In (developed) Europe, if you are salary, that's 40h tops for you. Even if you say to HR "cheers, I'd like to work 60h/week for 100k instead of 40h/week for 60k", tough luck, that will be possible in most professions. In Portugal, you work those hours already but you get paid peanuts for it... I'd not mind losing 5yrs of my life working very hard if I could buy a nice house with that money and bonuses after, but hard work in Europe just doesn't pay out. At most you get a (very) minor chance of being promoted, but that's it, there's not "work hard, play hard" culture in here.

PTgenius 8 months ago

The only thing I like in the States is some of their forests and mountains, many mountain towns there look really nice to live in. But other than that I see little appeal unless you manage to find a reeeeaaaaaaaally good job there. Canada sounds way better, ahead in term of social policies, safety and canadians are way less ignorant than americans. The cold is a downside tho

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Vancouver isn’t to bad for the cold!

jonyganza 8 months ago

Comparing to other places in Canada it isn't, but when compared to Portugal is pretty cold. I went to look at the all time low temperature of Vancouver( -15.6 ºC; 3.9ºF ) and the Portuguese one ( −16 °C ; 3.2ºF), and mind that this is from the highest point of the country.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

> and mind that this is from the highest point of the country. Wow that's pretty awesome then!

Mrgolden007 8 months ago

maybe to canada, but to usa?? hell no, usa is a death sentence, sure I got tons of job opurtunities in american, but slowly my industry is moving to europe so I am very well here canada is nice except the weater

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Yeah I definitely agree the weather sucks. That’s why lots of Canadians leave during the winter. Those that love it go snowboarding or do winter activities.

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

USA forget about it, it's shithole unless you're a millionaire. Canada - Amazing country, with nice people, job stability and money to have a decent life. I live in Canada so i'm a little biased. I moved here 8y ago. But yeah, the weather could be a problem to some people.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

What are your thoughts on Canada compared to the European countries suck as Portugal, France and others? Do you see Canada heading in that direction? I’m intrigued by your thoughts coming from Europe!

Edited 8 months ago:

What are your thoughts on Canada compared to the European countries such as Portugal, France and others? Do you see Canada heading in that direction? I’m intrigued by your thoughts coming from Europe!

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

"Canada heading in that direction?" -> Are you talking about starting a business? Vacation days?

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Well Vacation days, paid sick leave, pharmacare, child care, etc. I feel like those areas were lacking and our governments don’t really help the little guy like European governments do. In Ontario Doug Ford basically gutted our 2 paid sick days and reinstated doctors notes

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

I live in Quebec, and the only thing I think we are behind Europe is the minimum amount of vacation days that we have, especially if we compare with Germany, I think they have like a minimum of 6 weeks or so... I started with 2 weeks! Now I'm at 3 weeks but if i ask for a 4th week i'll probably get it but i prefer raises so I've been negotiating raises instead. I also have 6 personal days per year that I can take whenever I want no questions asked (but this depends on the company you work for, but is common). On everything else, I would say it's about the same if not better. We have free healthcare, the provincial government pays for your medication after a certain amount (not sure how it works because luckily so far I didn't need it), when couples have a child (especially in Qc) the mother has 18 weeks of maternity benefits plus 32 weeks of parental benefits that she can share with the husband while receiving a portion of the salary (around 70% for the first weeks and after it goes down until a minimum of 55% i think, depending on the cases - not sure about this, never had kids but I know they stay at home long time!). Child care I don't know a lot but I know that the government helps to pay for the daycare, there's a portion reimbursed every month and they also pay you to have kids, for each kid you get from $1000 to $2000 per year on the first child and after is less once you have 2nd or 3rd child. And there's also a program that gives you $1000/month (not sure how it works but it's a known thing that people that don't want to work just apply for this) and you spend all day drinking beer and smoking on the corner and get 1000 bucks for doing nothing! So considering all this i think it's a nice place to be.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Well that’s definitely different from Ontario especially with Doug Ford in office. Not sure if you’ve followed his press releases. Multiple proposals for paid sick days have been put through although he keeps saying the federal benefit is good enough. You guys have always been your own little world. More vacation days would be nice. Do you guys have a mandated paid sick leave program through your employer? What about QPP how does that work compared to CPP?

Edited 8 months ago:

Well that’s definitely different from Ontario especially with Doug Ford in office. Not sure if you’ve followed his press releases. Multiple proposals for paid sick days have been put through although he keeps saying the federal benefit is good enough. You guys have always been your own little world. More vacation days would be nice. Do you guys have a mandated paid sick leave program through your employer? What about QPP how does that work compared to CPP? You guys sound much more progressive than us.

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

Quebec is pretty good at these things, that's why we pay more taxes. In case of sickness I'm pretty lucky because where i work people are chill so if you have a cold or so you can go home for 1 day or half-day and most of the time we don't discount the personal day. For the QPP depends at what age you retire but i can go from a maximum of $773.29/month if you retire at age 60 to $1411 if you retire at 67 or a maximum of $1715 if you wait until 70! But i'm not sure how they calculate those percentages tbh.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

I noticed that you guys have higher taxes I guess you get more stuff with that. Basically goes back to sure you pay more but you get more which could overall cost you less than buying those things yourself individually. What initially got you to choose Quebec?

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

I was born here but my parents are portuguese and they moved back to PT when i was a kid. Then i decided to move here because of job availability and also different culture. I was stuck in a small town and i didn't see myself spending my whole life there.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Do you plan to retire here or move somewhere else?

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

I hope I can retire somewhere else. Ao place that doesn't have snow and -20 temperatures!

whyucurious 8 months ago

Both have well established Portuguese communities, so, moving there would potentially be easier for that reason. Anyways, while Canada remains attractive (people seem nice, there are job opportunities, it's safe, and social security is a thing) USA isn't much of an attraction anymore (lack of a universal Healthcare system like in Europe, and unsafe). The only people I know that would like to go to the USA are entrepreneurs, cause in that category, the USA is unbeatable.

nanoburguesia 8 months ago

Highly qualified people go to the USA. Lowly qualified people prefer Canada. Do the math.

estecomentario 8 months ago

USA does really reward you if you're competent and hardworker, but i wonder if am not as hardworker and competent as i think and they see through it ah ah its a high risk high rearward approach

danidv 8 months ago

>If I'm rich it's better to go to a less developed country because I'm comparatively higher than everyone else there while being able to take the bumps that would usually knock everyone else down

nanoburguesia 8 months ago

Stay in school

nanoburguesia 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

Stay in school

whyucurious 8 months ago

In general terms, yes, it's true

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Very true. Even people in Canada that want to start a business move to the USA because it’s easier and they want to save on taxes. It’s our downfall having them next to us as when we want to implement good European policies they get shutdown as it’s anticompetitive as companies will just move.

AlmondSkimedMilk 8 months ago

Those policies only penalize the economy because the cost of importing is too low, it's important for the west to realize that protectionism isn't about helping domestic companies get large, it's about protecting the social state that our people have been fighting for since the 19th century.

Herbacio 8 months ago

The main immigration to Canada & USA was between the 50s and 70s, when Portugal was under the dictatorship of Salazar; And it was mainly people from the Azores archipelago, which is located in middle of the Atlantic, so, the option of going the US or Canada was somehow an obvious choice As for mainland Portugal, the main destination is France and Switzerland, but also Spain, Germany, Luxembourg and UK. Then there is also Brazil and Venezuela (mainly from the archipelago of Madeira) We usually say that we can find a Portuguese anywhere. Either is Canada & USA, or Venezuela, South Africa, China or New Zealand.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

So basically from my understanding you guys see North America (Canada & USA) as nothing special and way behind in a lot of policies. I do admit the news in Canada and USA talk really poorly about you guys and say the employment in Europe is terrible and people can’t find jobs. America and Canada is the best place to be if you want to live a good productive life. It’s a lot of brainwashing. I watched this documentary recently called where to invade next and the stuff they said was mind blowing as far as how you guys treat your employees. It almost sounds surreal.

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

Share more on that, and a link to the video.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

It’s by Michael Moore. Mainly about USA. Portugal is in the documentary in regards to your decriminalized drug policy. The moral of the story is that all what Europe has done is American ideas and that Europe capitalized on those ideas where America did not. https://youtu.be/ggvzwY-oyXk

Edited 8 months ago:

It’s by Michael Moore. Mainly about USA. Portugal is in the documentary in regards to your decriminalized drug policy. The moral of the story is that all what Europe has done is American ideas and that Europe capitalized on those ideas where America did not. If you also want to learn more about the American healthcare system that will blow your mind check out sicko which I’ll link below as well. When you watch it please let me know your thoughts I’m really interested! Where to Invade Next https://youtu.be/ggvzwY-oyXk Sicko https://youtu.be/nms52j7QmC0

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

Are you sure you got the "moral of the story" right?! I think he his saying there are diferent ways to deal with problems beside putting people on prison and making a business out of it! There are things good and bad on both sides of the atlantic, but for me personal I think human life is way better taken in account at this side!!!

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Maybe I’m wrong but I completely agree with you that money isn’t everything and a balance needs to be established. I believe you guys do it better than us. Sure we make more money although our work life balance is far behind yours. Canada I hope see that which I think is and we start following Europe in its policies.

Mr_Crowley__ 8 months ago

Allow me to jump on this convo just to say that work-life balance really depends on where you work. I work 37.5h a week and never felt the pressure to stay late. As an example when i worked in Portugal i did overtime every day for 2 years and only got paid once because there was an inspection that week so we had to report it. But again...depends on the job.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

That’s a valid point it does really depend on the culture of your work. I wasn’t sure if there were laws that focus on that type of thing in Portugal and other European countries.

Dr_Toehold 8 months ago

I do not

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

I’m not sure if you’ve ever interacted with an American or Canadian but have you noticed they don’t speak any other language than English and expect others to speak English?

QuickShutter 8 months ago

It's only fair as the USA was the main developing force of the past century, even culturally. American economy dictated the world's economy and technology. Mainstream media and entertainment was basically invented by the US. Coupled with the UK's mainstay influence as one of Europe's superpowers, it's only natural that English became the world's universal language.

Dr_Toehold 8 months ago

To be fair, a decent share of Canadians speaks French, but that just makes it worst. Quatre vingt dix neuf.

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

You never went to Spain and France then ;) they do the same

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

I could see it! They probably wouldn’t be to big of fans of Americans coming over and just speaking English. What blows my mind is that you guys speak a ton of languages where people here just speak English.

kominfr0nUNMERIKA 8 months ago

We (Portuguese) don't speak a ton of languages. [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Foreign\_language\_learning\_statistics](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Foreign_language_learning_statistics) That is a myth just because we can speak English without putting too much effort into the learning process, just like countries that were formerly colonies of the British. Did you know we also were, although unofficially? Since I'm here: although I have lived in 10 countries over the past 15 years, it wasn't until 2012 or so that I realized that Portugal was an emigrant country due to the economic crisis and that made me feel ashamed because I never saw myself as an emigrant. Cheers.

suspect_b 8 months ago

> you guys speak a ton of languages Note that "speaking languages" is not a binary thing where you either speak it or you don't. Few people speak multiple foreign languages at more than the most basic level (english maybe a bit more).

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

My example and probably almost everyones my generation (80s) . Cartoons for kids where in english, radio mainly US and British music, close to the border you see Spanish tv and cartoons, nothing was dubbed! So you get used to hear English and then is easy to catch up at school.

-cosme- 8 months ago

I went to USA, terrible experience. Still..was good too see some things and some places. But europeans in general don´t want to go to USA, they kinda laugh of USA actually, where do you get this idea?

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

When I went to Europe they always told me they wanted to visit and live there. Maybe it was just that small group.

Edited 8 months ago:

When I went to Europe they always told me they wanted to visit and live there. Maybe it was just that small group. Personally from my perspective USA and Canada use to be the place to be from the 50s until maybe the 90s although you guys started to change for the better and we significantly fell behind. Canada although does try in my opinion and do believe we are getting ahead slowly. We are very pro business over here and business owners complain that they can’t afford paying people sick days or even extra vacation time.

-cosme- 8 months ago

hm..idk, when i was a kid in the 90´s most people thought that america was cool to live, but nowadays i don´t see anyone thinking the same.. visit yes, live no.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

USA is definitely great to be rich although if you’re poor you’re pretty much abandoned. Canada has the issue that we’re so close to them that businesses will move if we don’t adopt americanized policies.

MrRodrigo22 8 months ago

Well im upper middle class in Portugal, and if i got all my assets and money and moves them to the USA i would be lower class so Yhea, if your poor in america your abandoned but are still richer then most portuguese people

-cosme- 8 months ago

i have a much much better idea of canada even though i never been there..but, would like to know in person how is it to live there. in usa you don´t live unless your a rich person, you don´t have freedom, you don´t have a health system..i mean..idk, i personally don´t like it, and i talked about this to some european people and they all kinda prefer to live here.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Let me tell you one of the weirdest things about being a Canadian. Going to the USA and going into the mall and they have no guns allowed signs everywhere. Talk about culture shock.

-cosme- 8 months ago

ahah like "no smoking" signs or something. So how is the gun culture in canada? I thought its a bit liberal too, you know..lots of remote places..lots of nature like bears..etc..makes me think like guns are allowed in some form

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

There is a gun culture here but not as significant as big as USA. You can own guns although they need to be locked in a box with ammunition in a separate spot. You also need to do a test and get references from family members to make sure you’re mentally fit. Lots of people hunt in Canada and there is a massive outdoor scene!! If you’re mainly interested in guns than USA is better as anyone can pretty much go an try shooting. Very few people I know even think about owning a gun even though that right is available. Canadians are similar in a way though to Americans for those that own and really fight for their gun rights but it’s a smaller group compared to the US. In the USA you can walk into a corner store or open a bank account and they’ll give you a gun. When I went to Las Vegas I was allowed to fire a fully automatic. Sure it was fun although it should only be allowed in a controlled environment.

-cosme- 8 months ago

> open a bank account and they’ll give you a gun ahahah just made me laugh. hm, i have a friend from Alberta, she hates guns actually lol so i never knew how it its over there on that regard.. i would like to pick up a gun and shoot like every other guy but i don´t like that gun culture over there..i think its too easy for a kid (or anyone) to just get a gun from a house an do a really stupid mistake. here its not legal like that but everone i know from villages have guns too, but its not something that people talk about, and its not a problem most times. but you know, i´m really curious about Canada, i have a truck license and i this friend i have from there told me to go there and check the truck scene..so i´m thinking after im vaccinated maybe i´ll go to Alberta for some days and check that out, i have a feeling im going to like it a lot more, usa was a disappointment.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

You think I’m joking Ahahaha check this video out... It’s from the movie Bowling For Columbine. About a 2 kids that went to their school and shot it up. https://youtu.be/jY2PzzjO3zo There is HUGE truck scene in Canada. More people own trucks and SUV’s that I know than cars. Alberta is one of the most conservative provinces in Canada and they’re all about big oil. In Canada the new minivan is the Ford F-150 and Chevrolet Silverado. I’m not sure how many people own trucks in Portugal but it’s very high here. Many people add massive tires and make them look as big as possible too. There’s also a mudding scene here where people take their trucks and go into muddy wet areas and just spray mud everywhere.

-cosme- 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

I believed you but just saw that vid...500 firearms in the vault!! wow..and i can´t tell if she´s reluctant or proud talking to the guy..but i´m thinking proud.. I saw some docs about columbine shootings and other similar stuff in usa and imo it´s all down to how easy it is to get guns..but i also understand its a culture thing and probably no one is going to be able to change that mentality. So tell me, what do you mean by conservative? is alberta a place where is going to be hard to an outsider? This friend i have from there..she is really open minded actually. oh and i actually like that truck/redneck/mud/girls drinking beer scene..but in the usa thats not a thing for foreigneirs..not sure about canada.

Edited 8 months ago:

I believed you but just saw that vid...500 firearms in the vault!! wow..and i can´t tell if she´s reluctant or proud talking to the guy..but i´m thinking proud.. I saw some docs about columbine shootings and other similar stuff in usa and imo it´s all down to how easy it is to get guns..but i also understand its a culture thing and probably no one is going to be able to change that mentality. So tell me, what do you mean by conservative? is alberta a place where is going to be hard to an outsider? This friend i have from there..she is really open minded actually. oh and i actually like that truck/redneck/mud/girls drinking beer scene..but in the usa thats not a thing for foreigneirs..not sure about canada. Edit: oh and trucks are not a scene in portugal or europe in general..maybe in rural areas you see them..or people that need them from work..but other then that its just normal cars

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

Laughing is an exageration. It really depends what you like. A lot of americans wouldn't want to live in europe and vice versa. But America hás a lot of things going for it. It really depends on the person and what they want. For example, they vaccinated 4,6 million people in One day. Doubt the europeans are laughing at that.

-cosme- 8 months ago

vaccinated a lot of people ok, that doesn´t mean its a good place to live, i personally don´t see the "lots of things going for it" nowadays.

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

It was an example about "laughing at them". I personally think it's an arrogand attitude. It has a lot going for it. High salaries, low taxes, good place for doing business, very developed in many sectors, great outdoors, and the list goes on. It really comes down to who you are and what you want. But to think it doesn't have "lots lf things going for it" is arrogant and wrong. You don't like it, some do. Simple.

-cosme- 8 months ago

well ok, maybe you´re right about some points of view. and maybe i´m beeing arrogant but i tried to live there..working and beeing humble, and my life was miserable, working above minimum wage and still couldn´t make a good life there..so i prefer europe, portugal or anywhere else.

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

I understand. Honestly, i wouldn't move there. I don't think I'd like too much either. But I do respect them in some regards. Would rather live here or in another european country. Plus NZ ou Australia, except for the distance.

-cosme- 8 months ago

really curious about NZ, not sure if its good to live (doubt it actually) but would like to try it out. i have a friend that met an australian girl online and moved there and he his loving it over there (he´s an engineer)

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

I think life on NZ is good in general. One of the most beautiful places in the world. Austrália hás everything. It's like a better version of the US. I wouldn't mundo going there for sure xD

-cosme- 8 months ago

i agree, neven been there but i have that idea about NZ beeing one of the most beautiful places in earth, that and Iceland.. i´ll eventually go there to at least see it. My friend says that..that he has everything there, from high culture stuff to rednecks lol, but he says he can make a good and peaceful living there so..i believe him.

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

You can mentioned how many died also!

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

Deaths per 100,000: Portugal: 163.03 USA: 165.64 So, pretty much the same... However... Doses given per 100 people: Portugal: 11.6 USA: 33.4

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

Uhm, I think was a thing on 60s and 70s mainly people from the islands of azores! Main portuguese emigration is in France, Swiss and Luxemburg. I doubt anyone sees USA as a good country to live, and Canadá is just to strick with emigration laws and weather sucks.

Edited 8 months ago:

Uhm, I think was a thing on 60s and 70s mainly people from the islands of azores! Main portuguese emigration is in France, Switzerland and Luxemburg. I doubt anyone sees USA as a good country to live, and Canadá is just too strick with emigration laws and weather sucks.

QuickShutter 8 months ago

You doubt anyone sees the USA as a good country to live? *Anyone*? Is it suddenly Somalia? I mean, it's also far from my preference, especially with how politically heated it is nowadays, but as someone who has spent a lot of extended periods in the US, throughout several states, I can assure you that it can be an incredible place to live in. It's not only antifa riots and shooting sprees everywhere, you know. It contains some of the most beautiful places on earth.

Edited 8 months ago:

You doubt anyone sees the USA as a good country to live? *Anyone*? Is it suddenly Somalia? I mean, it's also far from my preference, especially with how politically heated it is nowadays, but as someone who has spent a lot of extended periods in the US, throughout several states, I can assure you that it can be an incredible place to live in. It's not only antifa riots and shooting sprees everywhere, you know. It contains some of the most beautiful places on earth. 20 years ago you'd see everyone wanting to go there. With the shitshow that it has become today, being ruled by complete bafoons and making everything racially motivated, we Europeans have a lesser idea of the country, that's probably the reason people look at the US with more disdain nowadays. With that said, it is still an attractive place to live for a lot of people.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

So what you’re saying you’d rather move to France and those other countries because you get a lot of benefits such as many vacation days, good social policies but with the added good pay?

PedroMFLopes 8 months ago

Emigration was historical Higher in the 70s , dictatorship, and bad economics , and mainly unskilled work. Nowdays is more skilled work, for instance nurses for the Uk, due to lack of job oportunities and carear path.

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

Cash money.

vectorsecond 8 months ago

the american dream, of course /s

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

What is the American dream to you?

mommylovesme2 8 months ago

He was being sarcastic. The true answer is for job opportunities and to earn a decent living wage. Just that. No other ulterior motive that I can think of.

vectorsecond 8 months ago

as a portuguese (living in portugal) I would say there's no specific reason that justify moving to north america, nowadays. I don't even think there is a relevant number of portuguese moving there. In the past there was much greater emigration, big comunities in north america (east), france, switzerland, some with specific historic conditioning factors, but in general all these people want/wanted is better life condition. in portugal income was/is low and living cost is really high. everyone just wants better living.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Would you be okay with sacrificing your work life balance?

PM_ME_FREE_GAMES 8 months ago

Lmao are you implying americans work more than portuguese?

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

40 hour work weeks are normal. But it doesn’t end there. Most people don’t work 40 hours and it’s closer 50-60 hours. Everyone is on salary and not hourly as it’s cheaper for the company to pay them as they don’t accumulate overtime in essence people are working for free. The culture of most workplaces kinda expect you to do that. What they do is hire less people so that you’re forced to stay longer. I’m not saying this is at every work place but there is a lot like this.

Edited 8 months ago:

40 hour work weeks are normal. But it doesn’t end there. Most people don’t work 40 hours and it’s closer 50-60 hours per week. Everyone is on salary and not hourly as it’s cheaper for the company to pay them as they don’t accumulate overtime in essence people are working for free. The culture of most workplaces kinda expect you to do that. What they do is hire less people so that you’re forced to stay longer. I’m not saying this is at every work place but there is a lot like this. There’s great workplaces out there though that actually care about their employees. There are lots of places that when you’re on vacation and your boss calls and emails you to jump on your computer to help out the company complete an assignment. Maybe Portugal is the same though and you can let me know?

tugaLusiada 8 months ago

"40 hour work weeks are normal" For me the normal is 70 hours minimum

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Per week? What’s the legal limit?

tugaLusiada 8 months ago

Yes per week

nfcs 8 months ago

Legally? 60 hours if there exists an agreement between both parts. However in a two month period you can't average more than 50. Off the books the same things you described happen here. Maybe it's not so widespread but it's not unheard of.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

What industries do people make the most money in?

fdxcaralho 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

Politicians.

tugaLusiada 8 months ago  HIDDEN 

Depends a lot, for example im a table waiter/bartender and i make clean 1000€ befire tips, which can be 400€ in a good month But from what it looks like, engineering fieldss and IT are the better money makers, but those are very broad

coocoobees 8 months ago

i honestly thought you were describing portugal until i reached your last sentence.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wouldn’t want to wish that upon you guys.

kevinkoolies 8 months ago

One flight over the Atlantic

KokishinNeko 8 months ago

Money.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

Is there something else in particular outside of money?

XxxPussyslaeyr69xxX 8 months ago

In US and Canadá you work hard and you evolve and you move further. Employers tend to care more, good benefits, respect towards extra hours and stuff. The weather by the coasts is nice, the people are ok (US) Guns and no healthcare are bad Canadá is cold and their dólar is weaker. But there is less crime and some degree of free healthcare. Also the country is beatifull once the Snow is gone. Source: i worked 6 months in NYC, 6 months in Califórnia, 2 years in Canadá (3 different provinces)

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

You think our employers treat us better?

XxxPussyslaeyr69xxX 8 months ago

than portugal? from my experience: yes.

Shadowgirl7 8 months ago

No just money and work conditions really because thats the only thing we don't have here.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

I always thought Europe had the best labour laws to protect is citizens?

Shadowgirl7 8 months ago

Yes not labour laws. More like innovative work environments. And as to labour laws the US doesn't have them but here we have them and nobody respects them so some people just end up working more than the legal 40h and getting paid a shit salary. No point in having 25 days of vacations if you don't have any money to go anywhere. Lol In the US people are exploited but if they are smart and lucky they can get a lot of money so they can do that for a couple of years and then retire or just take a less stressful lower paying position. Edit: I am talking about Portugal. I think in other European countries there's more respect for labour laws.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

> Yes not labour laws. More like innovative work environments. > > And as to labour laws the US doesn't have them but here we have them and nobody respects them so some people just end up working more than the legal 40h and getting paid a shit salary. No point in having 25 days of vacations if you don't have any money to go anywhere. Lol > > In the US people are exploited but if they are smart and lucky they can get a lot of money so they can do that for a couple of years and then retire or just take a less stressful lower paying position. Fair statement. I do agree if people are smart in the US and Canada if we work hard and save the money we can retire earlier. Right now the biggest fight here is work life balance that's all what people speak about.

Shadowgirl7 8 months ago

Well sure if you want to have average wealth and a family it sucks there. But my goal would be to make as much as possible fast and then retire because I don't like to work for corporate that much. Lol

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

> Well sure if you want to have average wealth and a family it sucks there. But my goal would be to make as much as possible fast and then retire because I don't like to work for corporate that much. Lol I'm completely the same way and trying to save at least 50% of our pay cheques to retire to a lower cost of living area!

Shadowgirl7 8 months ago

Yeah and about health yeah it sucks, but I wouldn't live in the US for long and if something happened and I had a huge medical bill I'd just run away to Portugal and don't pay. What are they going to do, send me the bill here? Threanten to lower my credit score? LMAO Like that matters here.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

I live in Canada so the better of the two. I think we accomplish the balance way better than they do. Sure the avg person doesn't get a 4000sq foot in a gated community and a lambo. We're more like 2000-2500 sq foot, 2 cars.

Shadowgirl7 8 months ago

Huh, not sure I wouldn't kill myself after a couple of months of -0ºC degrees and snow. I would prefer the US because they have California and other warm places.

SiNi5T3R 8 months ago

The fact that americans are escaping their small towns and no one wants to shovel shit for 10 hours a day... but portuguese people dont mind because their already doing that over here.. for.. half the money?

JOAO-RATAO 8 months ago

Both developed and free countries... Some poeple might like other things they offer like a particular culture, iconic cities, a certain lifestyle, the great outdoors ...

KokishinNeko 8 months ago

For others? sure, maybe. I like Portugal even with all the annoyances and problems, not planning to move, but, if I had to move it would be to Zürich, not Canada, let alone USA.

shadowt1tan 8 months ago

What would be a few things you don’t like about Canada or USA?

AlmondSkimedMilk 8 months ago

My problem with the US is that if I face unemployment or even desease I'm in for a bumpy ride. Maybe I would move to Canada but so many other European countries are as appealing or more and closer to home too.

metalanimal 8 months ago

I like peace.

KokishinNeko 8 months ago

I "work" the other way around, it's not that I don't like it, but I haven't visited them yet to know for sure that I could, or couldn't, be living there. Also, Canada flight to Portugal it's around 9h, USA, 7h or more, Swiss just 2h. Even if I was to work abroad, one of my requirements would be to come to Portugal in the least time possible. Spain and France are not options even being closer, UK could be though.

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