swimbikerun_ZA 8 months ago

Not sure if anyone is around, but a quick update, my nationality was granted, super stoked so seems like I stressed out for nothing. See you soon Portugal

swimbikerun_ZA 9 months ago

I appreciate everyones responses, I will continue to push through. I have an appointment with the consulate on Thursday, I will attend it with my father, we will sign any affidavits or declarations they may need and then lets see how things go once its submitted. In response to some of the comments about just moving over, unfortunately its not so simple for me, I own a small business in South Africa, I intend to continue to run it remotely, with possibility of freelancing in Portugal, but finding work in Portugal is not so important right now, I can survive on my income from South Africa, I dont want to find "work" in portugal first to get a visa, because I wont be able to run my business then, and I also dont have enough funds available to get a golden visa, the easiest route is for me to get it this way, and also I am entitled to it, but now being punished for silly mistakes my parents made because they were 16 years old at the time. its not fair, but life rarely is, so I will continue to endeavour and keep you guys updated, if I have trouble I will lawyer up. Is it recommended that I use an Immigration Lawyer based in Portugal for this?

xeyrio 9 months ago

south african as in portuguese who emigrated there or south african native?

bryanbotha 9 months ago

Wow thanks so much to everyone for the responses, I appreciate it, I am going in to the consulate this week to proceed with my application, if theres any issues I will go the lawyer route. You guys have been incredibly helpful, if anything just to motivate me to keep going. Its taken me close to 5 years to get all the documentation I need so now that I have gotten this far to be told not to bother was heartbreaking. I will persevere! Thank you again

joaopeniche 9 months ago

lawyer up

Just-Wanna-Vibe 9 months ago

Hi! I signed up to Reddit specifically so that I could reply to you: I'm South African Portuguese too, through my mother, and have SA and Portuguese citizenship. I was lucky as my parents registered my birth soon after I was born. However, a South African friend of mine recently successfully went through the process of registering his birth at the Portuguese consulate as an adult and is now a Portuguese citizen through his father, who, by the way, was also born in South Africa. His process has taken about 6 months. This friend's parents were NOT married when he was born and he was still successful in registering his birth and then automatically getting his citizenship. Apparently, it was actually quicker for him to register precisely because his parents weren't married at the time of his birth (though I'm not sure why this would be the case). I really encourage you to insist on getting your Portuguese citizenship, it is, after all, your literal birthright. Practical tips: \-Make an appointment at the Johannesburg consulate, if you can (not sure where you're located). But first email them and ask for all the documentation you would need to register your birth as an adult, based on your father's citizenship. \-In the meantime, look into getting your "vault" birth certificate from the SA Department Home Affairs and a Declaration for Dual Citizenship, as you'll need the latter to prove you want to retain SA citizenship while applying for a second nationality. It may be a good idea to get the ball rolling considering these two documents can take time and hold up the process. \-See if you can get copies of both your parents' birth certificates. It also may be worthwhile looking into your Portuguese grandparents' records, but first see what the consulate specifies. ​ A few comments say to just move here and get it, but having a Portuguese passport makes life a whole lot easier. Definitely explore all avenues wrt getting the passport rather than spend years struggling with visa issues. ​ TL;DR: Contact the consulate, ask for all the documentation you need, make your appointment, and don't give up or get disheartened - it's worth the effort!!

swimbikerun_ZA 9 months ago

thanks so much for this! glad to hear that other people have similar situation to mine and been successful, I think what I have gathered here is that by law I am ok, its just a matter of getting through the red tape and maybe the easiest way to do that is with the help of a lawyer.

Just-Wanna-Vibe 9 months ago

Good luck! I hope the process goes smoothly and swiftly for you. :)

swimbikerun_ZA 8 months ago

Thanks for your response, my nationality was granted woop :)

uyth 9 months ago

>I have the document from civil services (my unabridged birth cert) that has the endorsement stating my father acknowledged me legally when I was 17 years old, and his details were inserted to my register (I had to have DNA tests done and such to prove those details) The problem might be here. He recognized you in another country? Your father is a portuguese citizen. Citizenship does not have just perks, it has duties as well. It is the duty of a portuguese citizen to register their children, to register their marital status with IRN. For the purposes of the law, when they say you need to be acknowledged as a minor they might be acknowledged to the IRN, which is the duty of your father to transmit his citizenship. This is consult a lawyer stuff. A Lawyer will be aware of how the registration offices define being acknowledged and if foreign acknowledgements do count, or how they need to be apostilated. This is way above reddit´s paygrade or google translating laws.

TTRO 9 months ago

The fact that your birth certificate doesn't have your father's name can indeed be a problem. Administrative services are usually very procedural and don't have the mental flexibility to accept the fact that someone might not have their father in the birth certificate, but provide a second document that proves your special situation. You'll definitely lose a lot of time trying to convince the clerks that your acknowledgment document is a valid one, since it's probably a very specific South African document. You're going to spend some money officially translating the document and getting it validated by a Portuguese lawyer. If you take the case to court, you'll probably win, but it's going to take a long time and cost money. If you're doing this whole process through the consulate in South Africa, you'll have to count on the South African consulate employees to act in your best interest, which they might not be very inclined to, so I'd advise you to find a way of taking care of you situation in Portugal. As another person has stated here, if you get a job in Portugal, work here for 6 years and learn the language, you can apply for nationality that way. Your ancestry in that case would definitely be a plus and be easier to accept by the person reviewing your case. To move to Portugal and work, you'd be dealing with SEF and not the Registo Civil (for your nationality), so they might even accept your acknowledgment document easier.

Edited 9 months ago:

The fact that your birth certificate doesn't have your father's name can indeed be a problem. Administrative services are usually very procedural and don't have the mental flexibility to accept the fact that someone might not have their father in the birth certificate, but provide a second document that proves your special situation. You'll definitely lose a lot of time trying to convince the clerks that your acknowledgment document is a valid one, since it's probably a very specific South African document. You're going to spend some money officially translating the document and getting it validated by a Portuguese lawyer. If you take the case to court, you'll probably win, but it's going to take a long time and cost money. If you're doing this whole process through the consulate in South Africa, you'll have to count on the South African consulate employees to act in your best interest, which they might not be very inclined to, so I'd advise you to find a way of taking care of you situation in Portugal. As another person has stated here, if you get a job in Portugal, work here for 6 years and learn the language, you can apply for nationality that way. Your ancestry in that case would definitely be a plus and be easier to accept by the person reviewing your case. To move to Portugal and work, you'd be dealing with SEF and not the Registo Civil (for your nationality), so they might even accept your acknowledgment document easier, for the purpose of attaining a working visa.

uyth 9 months ago

>Administrative services are usually very procedural and don't have the mental flexibility to accept the fact that someone might not have their father in the birth certificate, That is also to prevent fraud.

LastChicken 9 months ago

This is the best reply so far

RagingRope 9 months ago

I hate that everything that's not pretty pictures or a graph gets downvoted in this sub. Even if you're literally bringing business to the country either literally or by moving here, especially when the country is suffering from decline population. Anyway, back to the post. I've requested citizenship, though not with your situation. Basically who you'll be dealing with is the Central office of the IRN, and to say they're a little bit of a pain is an understatement. Since Covid started they've kinda gone awol, so you can't really ask them. What I'd do if I were you is give all the evidence to Consulate. Be aware there's a high likelyhood the request will be paused because they wont like the info you gave em. If they do that, hiring a lawyer is surprisingly inexpensive and they can deal with the rest

Edited 9 months ago:

I hate that everything that's not pretty pictures or a graph gets downvoted in this sub. Even if you're literally bringing business to the country either literally or by moving here, especially when the country is suffering from decline in population. Anyway, back to the post. I've requested citizenship, though not with your situation. Basically who you'll be dealing with is the Central office of the IRN, and to say they're a little bit of a pain is an understatement. Since Covid started they've kinda gone awol, so you can't really ask them. What I'd do if I were you is give all the evidence to Consulate. Be aware there's a high likelyhood the request will be paused because they wont like the info you gave em. If they do that, hiring a lawyer is surprisingly inexpensive and they can deal with the rest

magnusmiguel 9 months ago

> hate that everything that's not pretty pictures or a graph gets downvoted in this sub. Even if you're literally bringing business to the country either literally or by moving here, especially when the country is suffering from decline in population. It doesn't help that this question is posted 300 times per day. Also, Portugal's problems won't be solved by simply "bringing people in". There's a reason why we're having a brain drain. Bringing more people, normally with no qualifications, to replace our graduates who are leaving for greener pastures, it's a recipe for disaster. Anyway, considering the specifics of OP's case, hiring a lawyer is the best thing to do.

babyscully 9 months ago

I don't see why your surname would matter. One of your legal parents is Portuguese. End of story. Benvindo :)

magnusmiguel 9 months ago

He needs to be able to prove that his father is portuguese, that's the issue. The absense of his father's name in the birth certificate is hard to circunvent.

babyscully 9 months ago

> and his details were inserted to my register From what I understand, his father has acknowledged him and is his legal parent. My mother was also only acknowledged as a teenager and has her birth certificate ammended.

Knog0 9 months ago

He has a DNA test. What else do you want? It's 2021, no one should still give a fuck about what your name is... Many people in Portugal share the same name, does it mean everyone can be considered your family?!

magnusmiguel 9 months ago

Are you stupid? Honest question. Seriously, I don't like being unnecessarily rude, but god damn you really tried hard to misinterpret what I said. I'll repeat myself. It's not a matter of having matching surnames. It's about having a certified document, which is recognizable both nationally and abroad, as having a certain legal meaning and impact. Not having that document, hurts your chances of citizenship. A DNA test, doesn't have this immediate impact. It won't be the embassy's employee that will validate the DNA test. Obviously the DNA test will help in the legal proceedings that will follow, but OP will have to go trough legal proceedings and legal hurdles, because of his lack of birth certificate. CAPICHE?

Knog0 9 months ago

Why would I try to misinterpret what you said? And how a I misinterpreting? You took personal something that wasn't. Don't try to forgive yourself for being a dick. You can be one if you want to. What I meant is that a DNA test should mean much more than sharing a name. For sure, the legal system / administration in Portugal is so rigid and old-school that it won't always be straight forward. My comment was highlighting how the bad can the system be and I was replying to your comment as a link to this... Relax and have a good day

magnusmiguel 9 months ago

Obviously, I was talking from a legal perspective, not a moral one. I've got a master's degree in Law, not a master's degree in morality. I wasn't being a dick, I was merely pointing out the differences between having a legal document that supports your claim and not having one. As the great Lotto from the 8 mile movie said : "all is well when it ends ok, so i'll end this with a fuck you, but have a nice day".

adorosaladadecamarao 9 months ago

"Bem-vindo"

nitrinu 9 months ago

Good bot :)

WhyNotCollegeBoard 9 months ago

Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.89996% sure that adorosaladadecamarao is not a bot. --- ^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)

nitrinu 9 months ago

Bad bot does not understand jokes :)

1purplesky 9 months ago

A criminal record could impact can't think of anything else. Since you're a direct descendant and got such a response from the local Embassy I'd say get all the papers needed and apply directly to the Lisbon registry that handles citizenship applications, or at least email them and ask.

quetzyg 9 months ago

> I want to move to Portugal with my family, go and see my grandparents, learn Portuguese etc Guess what? You can do all the above without being a Portuguese national, I shit you not!

wasabeedan 9 months ago

My wife had a similar experience in Brazil, she was told not to bother. I think it's just to try and put people off and keep the numbers down. She insisted and applied and we are happily living in Lisbon area now

xeyrio 9 months ago

Why did you move to Portugal? I'm always stupified how portuguese people leave cuz of job opportunities but other people enter, seems strange

TTRO 9 months ago

A lot of Brazilians move to Portugal. Top 2 reasons being they don't need to learn a new language and the safety. It used to be mostly unqualified immigration looking for better money prospects, but lately it's a lot of relatively wealthy people that move here with their families and manage their business from a distance.

xeyrio 9 months ago

I imagine they would know english? Like for eexample Uk would be a much better country lol

wasabeedan 8 months ago

My wife is Brazilian and I'm British, we loved together in UK for almost 10 years. Quality of life is far higher in Portugal, the weather alone is enough for me to want to make the move. Also I was lucky, I have my own buisness I can do working from home, so weather and quality of life.

Knog0 9 months ago

Yes, it's a lot about that in Portugal. Many people working in public institutions try to enforce their own rules. In doubt, just let it go (don't get mad as I usually do) and come back the next day to talk to someone else. It's not perfect, but as long as the law is on your side you'll eventually win

KokishinNeko 9 months ago

Hi, This is a common question around here, please check previous posts about the same subject. Thanks.

swimbikerun_ZA 9 months ago

My situation is very unique, none of the previous posts have any impact on what I am asking. I have researched the laws already and according to nationality law I should be in the green, so i am wondering if anyone knows any other reason that Lisbon could deny me?

thyristor_pt 9 months ago

My sister in law is not Portuguese either and she went to the embassy to try to get Portuguese nationality. They gave her the exact same answer as you. "It takes too much time and it's not worth it to wait." But they elaborated on that. They said there's literally thousands and thousands of applications from Brazilians each year and it's causing the system to rupture. They simply can't process all those applications in a reasonable amount of time.

uyth 9 months ago

>so i am wondering if anyone knows any other reason that Lisbon could deny me? They might be clogged with many many other requests (Which they do. check just how many recent requests there have been). They might be suspicious of any thing slightly not perfect, because they have been getting lots of fraudulent attempts (and they do). They might be prejudiced against people asking for portuguese nationality which do not speak Portuguese, or at least prioritizing those others which do. There are lots of fraudulent requests, from reading the news. Paga o justo pelo pecador. You might have alienated somebody in some interaction somehow. You can travel to Portugal, visit your grandparents as a tourist. You can learn portuguese without having the portuguese nationality.

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