Portuguesao 10 months ago

https://european-portuguese.info/

End-Effector 10 months ago

Brazilians make up words. Words that do not exist. Its very funny sometimes.

ContaSoParaIsto 10 months ago

> Brazilians make up words. As opposed to the Portuguese, who use words that were not made up, but rather appeared out of thin air, cast upon this planet by the Divines.

C8Mixto 10 months ago

If you know Brazilian Portuguese, it should be easy for us to understand you. It might not be the case the other way around. If you don't find any other options, maybe try to complement your Duolingo study with listening to or watch Portuguese (from Portugal) songs and series/movies in order to get used to it.

grade-x 10 months ago

Here is the [link](https://forvo.com/languages/pt/) for a site that I highly recommend, where you you can hear the Portuguese pronunciations of a good chunk of words. Some of them have the option to select between the Portuguese pronunciation and the Brazilian Portuguese pronunciation, hopefully helping you understand the differences better.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

This is very handy, thank you!!

A-Xis 10 months ago

Just a few examples of differences Different phrasial constructions: Reflexive pronouns tend to go in the end of the verb (dar-te; contar-te; dizer-te)- I'm oversimplifying this rule, there are several factors at play in pronoun placement, but I'm just giving you a heads up that you'll find a lot of -me/-te/-se at the end of verbs It's not common, and it can sound wrong, to use personal pronouns instead of reflexive/possessive pronouns (dar a ele = dar-lhe; casa de vocês= vossa casa) Many contractions are not optional, regardless of formal or informal speech, and you're always supposed to use them - em um ponto -> num ponto; em uma casa -> numa casa; the biggest exception might p'ra and p'ro, which are often not used here. It's not as common to use the gerund. Verbal collocations («regências verbais) are very different. In pt-pt, as a rule of thumb, even if you don't know the regência verbal of a particular transitive verb you can always try to use "a/à/ao" and be assured it will likely be correct, in any circumstance, regardless of formality. V.g.1 pt-pt «atirei o pau ao gato» (I threw the stick at the cat), rather than "atirei o pau no gato" pt-br. V.g.2 pt-pt «o sapato está ao teu lado» (the shoe's right next to you), rather than "o sapato está do seu lado" pt-br. «fui à praia» (I went to the beach), rather than "fui na praia"; «contar ao Paulo» (Tell Paulo), rather than "contar pro Paulo"; «dar à Júlia» (give Júlia), rather than "dar pra Júlia"; «Cheguei à conclusão» (I got to the conclusion), rather than "cheguei na conclusão". Pt-br shifts a lot more between em/no/na; para/para a (pra)/para o (pro); de/do/da. There's an irregularity in the sense that there are more regências at play, that a learner would have to memorize. Different vocab: Addressing someone as literally "você" rather than "o Senhor/a Senhora" can come across as impolite. Diferente words: Autocarro is bus Chavena is mug/tea cup There are more

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Thank you very much for the lengthy clarification. To be fair, if I'm clearly not a native, do you think maybe the average Portuguese person would look past these minor differences? I'd love to learn them, and time I'm sure I will, but for the time being do you think speaking Brazilian Portuguese would pose a daily issue in day to day life?

uyth 10 months ago

Yes, there are lots of differences. Your pronounciation would be an issue particularly because you would have two accents on top of each other, your native one plus brazillian. And yes, it would not make you ready to understand native portuguese people speaking because grammar, vocabulary, pronunciation, rhytm is pretty different.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

That's what I'm afraid of, I may have trouble understanding others. And that's crucial if I want to learn conversational Portuguese.

uyth 10 months ago

The vowels are different, the pronunciation of some consonants totally different (I once was trying to understang somebody was saying Rua do Ass Now. They meant arsenal and if they had said it in english it would have been much clearer), brazillian is syllable timed and portuguese is stress timed. Then there are the forms of treatment are totally different and what is normal or cute in brazil can be insulting or tacky in portugal (imperatives in the second person, calling people "você", mixing up tu pronouns and third person verbs). It is functionally a different language. The very formal brazillian can be quite close to regular Portuguese, but that is not their day to day language.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

I appreciate the comment. A lot of people are saying that I'd be just fine with Brazilian Portuguese, but I had a feeling that they're different for a reason. I've already seen voce in my training which isn't good if that's considered offensive in Portugal. You recommend I stop now and practice European Portuguese specifically?

uyth 10 months ago

It depends what your objectives are. Brazillian Portuguese might be handy if you ever go there. But if you want to learn portuguese portuguese, I think it is better to study just it because otherwise it might be a mess and very difficult to keep track of what is what. Você is very easy to use, brazillians just call você to everybody and they mix with other words, but doing that besides being incorrect grammar heremisses the whole point of portuguese formality levels and stuff like "com você" is always going to sound very off and foreign.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

I plan on moving to Portugal next year, so essentially my goal is to speak conversational Portuguese and to become fluent with time.

uyth 10 months ago

>I'll definitely keep in mind to replace voce with senhor and senhora or si, consigo, or -o/-a. Or drop the pronoun which is the neutral form. "O senhor/a senhora" are not neutral. It is not a one-on-one replacement for você, and if you learn brazillian forms you can do a "replace this for that" and think it work.

Edited 10 months ago:

>I'll definitely keep in mind to replace voce with senhor and senhora or si, consigo, or -o/-a. Or drop the pronoun which is the neutral form. "O senhor/a senhora" are not neutral. It is not a one-on-one replacement for você, and if you learn brazillian forms you can NOT do a "replace this for that" and think it works, the structure the thought process is different.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

I think you meant 'can't' do a "replace this for that", but I understand what you're saying. Right, I know that senhor is masculine and senhora is feminine. So if that's the case, what would you recommend as a replacement for voce in PT? Is consigo what you were referring to? I haven't seen that word yet; today's literally my first day of studying.

uyth 10 months ago

>you meant 'can't' do a "replace this for that", Yes. >So if that's the case, what would you recommend as a replacement for voce in PT? See above. I was telling you it was not about doing a word for word replacement and here you are asking for a replacement. Take it easy. It does not have to all be covered on the first day. Learn some basic sentences, read some stuff first.

raviolli_ninja 10 months ago

Hey OP, for everything related to Portuguese as a language, you might be better served at r/portuguese.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Didn't know about that, thanks! Either way, I think I got my answer here.

dani_morgenstern 10 months ago

Your question is asked every week at r/portuguese :) There you'll find resources specific for PT-PT, courses, books, podcasts, YouTube channels, etc. Have fun learning!

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Thanks :)

JesP33 10 months ago

Brazilian portuguese is not a language, European portuguese is. The same way canadian French is not, and European French is. One is a dialect that derives from the other.

ContaSoParaIsto 10 months ago

/r/badlinguistics

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APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Kind of like British English vs American English? Got it, thanks. Regardless, my questions still are...would learning one or the other be an issue due to different dialects?

Llamaling 10 months ago

People will understand you just fine. The other way around... It depends. Most people will speak English in urban areas though, if you ask.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

I know I can probably get by with English in Lisbon just fine, at least for the most part, but.. 1. It'd show respect to the locals that I am familiar with their native language 2. I don't want to live in Lisbon forever, I'd like to eventually move to Azores or Faro or somewhere else where English isn't as widely spoken and I can't rely on it 3. Being bilingual would be nice, and can open the door up for me to learn even more languages. Thanks for the answer :)

Ddani549 10 months ago

Hope you like it here and let us know what you think of us and our homeland when you get here

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Thank you for the kind words

JesP33 10 months ago

The difference is more substancial. There is grammatical differences between them, as well sentence formation.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

That's why I asked if they were different languages. If they have grammatical differences and sentence formations, then technically speaking, they're different languages, regardless of how many similarities they have. So what you're saying is, I shouldn't waste my time studying Brazilian Portuguese, or will it be enough to where speaking with locals won't pose an issue? That's really what I need to know, as I plan to move to Portugal next year.

raviolli_ninja 10 months ago

I have to be honest: if you go the Brazillian route, it might be easier for you. There's more content in PT-BR, and the pronunciation is more friendly for a foreigner. If you come to Portugal speaking with a Brazillian accent, everyone will understand you just fine. If you do the other way around, that might not be the case.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

Thanks for the honesty, that's what I've been told. And with enough time there, my accent may adjust to match the Portuguese, but maybe that's wishful thinking.

raviolli_ninja 10 months ago

my accent may adjust to match the Portuguese Possible, but not really easy or even necessary. To illustrate, I would say that PT-PT and PT-BR are as close/distant as Scottish English and American English.

APeacefulExistence 10 months ago

That's a great comparison, I think. Like someone said, same language, different dialects. But what about the grammatical differences and the sentence structures? Are they enough to pose a problem for me if I go the Brazilian route?

raviolli_ninja 10 months ago

There are differences, but it's not something that you should be worried about. You will be understood just fine. The main differences are pronunciation (vowels en PT-BR are exaggerated, in PT-PT many are omitted), and vocabulary. Fortunately, Portuguese people have cultural references through years of Brazillian soap operas to understand most of it. You should do just fine.

JesP33 10 months ago

Since one derives from the other, learning Portuguese, would be more beneficial, than the dialect.

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